Post by Azherae on 2021-06-06 08:24:27
I was starting the Rogue Desires Compilation, reading through hundreds of comments, but one thing kept coming out. No full invisibility?
I don't know if this is confirmed, all the wiki implies for sure is that Rank 1 Stealth will have 'tells'.
I hope it's being able to see footsteps, or the Partial Visibility starting at the Rogue's Waist and phasing down so you can only fully see the bottom of their shoes, so they can use some terrain trickery.
Anyway, here's stuff as another optionset.
Rogue throws smokebomb, range is long, visibility is hindered within a radius about 2-3 T-posed Elves in diameter. Action targeted normally, the Rogue doesn't always place this directly on their target or even in a specific orientation to the target. Rogue does not necessarily come through this space, but instead is using this to manipulate the player's attention and then react to what the player does when they see the smoke cloud near them. Misdirection.
e.g. If you think the player is a straightforward thinker, put the smokebomb on the opposite side of your attack vector, make them pay attention to that, and then attack. If you think they're a jittery panicky/suspicious type, put it between you and them, and actually come up on them through it (or just off to the side a bit, so you can still see).
Another use would work with a 'Sliding Strike' ability. let's just call this 'Hamstring' (it may need to bypass the Global Cooldown for various reasons)
Hamstring lets you slide past the enemy as if no collision, to the other side, while dealing damage at the start of the ability, equal to one swing of your weapon(s). Technique is to put down a smokebomb, even right on top of you both, while in melee, instantly use this (or not use it, that's the trick) and then backstab. If your opponent turned because they think you used it, but you didn't, you succeed. If they refused to turn because they didn't think you used it, you succeed. In PvE, just make Hamstring give your opponent a 1-2s effect where they can't change their facing direction.
Finally to remove some of the guesswork in getting the benefits from these, add one close range ability 'Cutthroat', which lets the Rogue automatically get behind anyone who is hit by the ability from their side-cones and, again, prevents the target from being able to change direction for a moment.
These allow Rogues to PvX without having to actually become invisible to set up Backstabs. They just try to outplay you with misdirection until you slip up, and the skill from the Rogue side is in 'recognizing that you've slipped up and using their ability combo'.
The Rogue's other skills involve things like buffs, armor penetration, 'mercy kill' mechanics that combo with other classes' knockdowns, evasion buffs, etc, so when they use them, the other player can react, (assuming Global Cooldown on everything but Hamstring) knowing that they have a moment to reposition without it giving the Rogue any chance at advantage.
Finally, a wilder one, 'Afterimage' which is literally 'a shadow that keeps moving (or not moving) in the direction the Rogue was, at the time of ability use, while the Rogue does become 'invisible' (even with the tell) for maybe 1-1.5s. (in PvE the enemy just attacks the afterimage or 'panics' for that short period). The Rogue can use this to get better positions for the other abilities, but the opponent has a moment to react to the 'shadow disappearing and the Rogue reappearing'. Some will try to get away by dodge rolling, etc, when they see this. For double misdirection, just keep going the same way as the Afterimage so that they are looking around for the 'tell' but there is none. Combine with Smokebomb or terrain to hide the 'tell' itself.
I view this as similar to just 'getting out of a radial AoE telegraph'. You see a sign that Afterimage has happened, you have lost track of the Rogue, you assume Backstab or Cutthroat->Backstab is coming, you get out of range fast so that Afterimage wears off and you don't take that damage.
Let me know what you think. Also, help me out! I can't add this to the Rogue Compilation I may eventually make unless people agree with it mostly or help me refine it (this isn't for me since I don't plan to play Rogue this game, but my group has a rule where we won't skew the feedback by each posting separately, so help our Rogue out by discussing this one, since the other rule - where I can't add things I personally want to compilations - is transitive here...)
I don't know if this is confirmed, all the wiki implies for sure is that Rank 1 Stealth will have 'tells'.
I hope it's being able to see footsteps, or the Partial Visibility starting at the Rogue's Waist and phasing down so you can only fully see the bottom of their shoes, so they can use some terrain trickery.
Anyway, here's stuff as another optionset.
Rogue throws smokebomb, range is long, visibility is hindered within a radius about 2-3 T-posed Elves in diameter. Action targeted normally, the Rogue doesn't always place this directly on their target or even in a specific orientation to the target. Rogue does not necessarily come through this space, but instead is using this to manipulate the player's attention and then react to what the player does when they see the smoke cloud near them. Misdirection.
e.g. If you think the player is a straightforward thinker, put the smokebomb on the opposite side of your attack vector, make them pay attention to that, and then attack. If you think they're a jittery panicky/suspicious type, put it between you and them, and actually come up on them through it (or just off to the side a bit, so you can still see).
Another use would work with a 'Sliding Strike' ability. let's just call this 'Hamstring' (it may need to bypass the Global Cooldown for various reasons)
Hamstring lets you slide past the enemy as if no collision, to the other side, while dealing damage at the start of the ability, equal to one swing of your weapon(s). Technique is to put down a smokebomb, even right on top of you both, while in melee, instantly use this (or not use it, that's the trick) and then backstab. If your opponent turned because they think you used it, but you didn't, you succeed. If they refused to turn because they didn't think you used it, you succeed. In PvE, just make Hamstring give your opponent a 1-2s effect where they can't change their facing direction.
Finally to remove some of the guesswork in getting the benefits from these, add one close range ability 'Cutthroat', which lets the Rogue automatically get behind anyone who is hit by the ability from their side-cones and, again, prevents the target from being able to change direction for a moment.
These allow Rogues to PvX without having to actually become invisible to set up Backstabs. They just try to outplay you with misdirection until you slip up, and the skill from the Rogue side is in 'recognizing that you've slipped up and using their ability combo'.
The Rogue's other skills involve things like buffs, armor penetration, 'mercy kill' mechanics that combo with other classes' knockdowns, evasion buffs, etc, so when they use them, the other player can react, (assuming Global Cooldown on everything but Hamstring) knowing that they have a moment to reposition without it giving the Rogue any chance at advantage.
Finally, a wilder one, 'Afterimage' which is literally 'a shadow that keeps moving (or not moving) in the direction the Rogue was, at the time of ability use, while the Rogue does become 'invisible' (even with the tell) for maybe 1-1.5s. (in PvE the enemy just attacks the afterimage or 'panics' for that short period). The Rogue can use this to get better positions for the other abilities, but the opponent has a moment to react to the 'shadow disappearing and the Rogue reappearing'. Some will try to get away by dodge rolling, etc, when they see this. For double misdirection, just keep going the same way as the Afterimage so that they are looking around for the 'tell' but there is none. Combine with Smokebomb or terrain to hide the 'tell' itself.
I view this as similar to just 'getting out of a radial AoE telegraph'. You see a sign that Afterimage has happened, you have lost track of the Rogue, you assume Backstab or Cutthroat->Backstab is coming, you get out of range fast so that Afterimage wears off and you don't take that damage.
Let me know what you think. Also, help me out! I can't add this to the Rogue Compilation I may eventually make unless people agree with it mostly or help me refine it (this isn't for me since I don't plan to play Rogue this game, but my group has a rule where we won't skew the feedback by each posting separately, so help our Rogue out by discussing this one, since the other rule - where I can't add things I personally want to compilations - is transitive here...)