Wondering about a slight change to the flagging system

This would just remove any pvp in the open world. If Steven wanted a game like that he could've just made a game w/o open world pvp. Everyone who hasn't played Lineage 2 are way too scared of being killed/harassed when in reality that'll be really rare and when it does happen, the damage to the reputation of the harasser is usually bigger than the dmg to the victim.

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Purples wouldn't have a disadvantage. A group of harassers would still be able to harass a player by just attacking the victim once each while they're green. Then they'll wait however long the timer is and attack again.

And the aggressor always having the first hit on their side dissuades the green players from fighting back even more. So greens don't fight back while anyone who wants to pvp can't hit anyone beyond a single hit, otherwise they get fucked by the corruption system.

And greens know that the purples can't do anything to them beyond the first hit so they can do whatever they want. In the current system there's risk and reward. The attacker has to consider their hits because any of them could kill the target and they get quite a bit of corruption. In your suggested system there's no risk. You gonna get corruption 100% of the time if you hit anyone more than once, while your first hit doesn't risk anything, because you'd already have an advantage in the fight even if your target decides to fight back.

Your system only worsens the gameplay for both sides. The green players will still get harassed and probably with even bigger hits, because it's safer for the attacker to use their strongest ability on a green for free.

In my experience of the current system, predominant majority of people would make prodding hits when they enter a farming location that's taken by another person. That hit checks whether the target is willing to fight back. If the target doesn't fight back then the attacker weighs the pros and cons of murdering the target. Risk and reward.

But what's more often is that the target of that potential prodding hit just shoots first to show that they are in fact ready to fight and already have an advantage in that fight (usually it's a strong hit too).

In your system the prodding attack would cement the target green in not fighting back, because why would they? The attacker can't do anything else to them or they'll become red and the target can immediately kill them for absolutely free (or call friends to do that). Or the attacker will just go away because they don't want to become red before killing their biggest threat in the room. Alternatively the attacker stays in that room and starts farming the same stuff. And unless the target decides to fight back after all, the attacker can just continue farming stuff until their flag timer resets and they can just do another huge attack on the target, in hopes of mobs killing the target or just as a way to harass that person.

Except the prodding attack itself would probably be a huge hit too, just because that brings the target even closer to death, which just increases the chance of them dying to mobs asap.

And when it comes to the "first shot" of the farming person, it also accomplishes the opposite effect. Them flagging up just means that the newcomer is free to do whatever they want and now the roles in my previous example are reversed.


There's no risk involved in the decision to attack someone, because you're assured to become red or have the advantage. And there's no risk in not fighting back because if your attacker becomes red - he's a freebie for anyone around (you included), while he might even have some stat dampening if he has some PKs on him already. And most likely he would have those PKs because anyone who's ready to go red would most likely just go all the way, because the base decision to kill someone is way easier.

In the current system some players might attack others, but not risk the kill because they're scared of becoming red. And the harassers will just be prepared for the penalties. In your system the scared people would most likely not attack at all or do huge hits right before their target goes up to a mob. While the harassers will still just kill anyone they want because they're ready for the penalties. And now you've removed open world pvp, while haven't done anything to prevent harassment. If anything, you've increased the desire to harass pvers in the people who're on the fence about it.

Now I'm saying all of this from 12 years of personal experience of the current pvp system. It worked just fine. Lowbies weren't harassed most of the time, outside of some random PKers who'd go on genocide runs (which AoC's system prevents). And Steven has already made the penalties for PKing bigger than they were in the previous iteration of this system, so it's already more pver-friendly than the already-working system. And based on that, I see no point in making it even more anti-pvp.

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Yeah, my point there was that your system wouldn't remove harassment.

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Yeah, and fighting for the right to pve is a core concept in Ashes. The soft friction between players leads to good interactions. You want to farm a cool mob or a rare resource? You either gotta be lucky to not have any competitors for the same goal or fight for them. And on top of that you can just be killed for your loot later on. Except in your system you'll lose twice as much loot if you don't immediately fight back against an attacker. Most likely if a dude sees you're gathering/farming good stuff, he'll be prepared for the consequence of going red on you, so he'll just quickly attack you and you won't even have the chance to flag back up to half your death penalty, so you'll lose more resources in this system.

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I gave an example why it's safer. In my experience attackers don't just throw their strongest hit as their first, because it might have some additional mechanics that might be on cd when the attacker needs it during the potential pvp fight. And in most cases (again, from my experience of playing L2 for 12 years), pvp initiators want a fair pvp for a spot, so the flagging attack is a weak one. And if the target fights back and then wins, the attacker might not come back to that location because they understand that their target is not a weakling and deserves that spot.

In your system there's no point in a weak first attack, because the chances are - the green will not fight back, because the system completely supports them not flagging up, because you can't do shit after your first hit.

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You missed the "attacker would go red" part. I meant that the green player is completely safe from any more attacks. And in the case that the attacker does decide to attack more - they're immediately a red player and can be killed by anyone. And if they have a somewhat big PK count - they even have stat dampening and now their target can kill them way more easily.

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I gave an example why I don't believe that people will be throwing out huge attacks at random people. Now I can obviously be wrong, but that is why I explicitly stated that I'm commenting on your system from the context of 12 years of experience with the currently planned system. And in that experience, most players go for fair fights for locations because it's not only more fun this way, but it also immediately shows them if they really deserve to farm that location.

If the attacker in the current system does a huge attack first and then the target barely loses in pvp, that would mean that the target is stronger than the attacker (because attacker had an advantage). And now the initial attacker understands that their target will just come back and kick their ass because they'll be more prepared and will probably make their own first hit.

And due to this interaction, as I stated in my first comment, most of the time the initial farming person does the preemptive strike because it gives them an early advantage and immediately shows the newcomer that they're ready for pvp. But in your system the newcomer can now abuse that because they know that they won't be attacked again.

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No one is being hostile towards you. If anything, you're the one escalating this discussion beyond what it is right now. Crow criticized your system, because it does not fit the current goal of the corruption system. Being red and having a ton of penalties for it are meant to prevent people from murdering others left and right.

In your system, corruption system prevents people from attacking others at all. There is no reason for a green player to fight back in your system. Even the pvp players won't attack, because that's not beneficial for them. What's beneficial in your system is waiting for your attacker to make another hit and then kill a red player who drops a ton of shit and can't come back to the same place because they have a ton of xp debt.

This is why Crow said your system doesn't understand what corruption is meant for. Crow didn't insult you. Nor were they aggressive towards you. But you immediately became aggressive against Crow though.