Why does Ashes have embers in the cash shop?

Post by BlackBrony on 2022-06-09 21:09:35

We have not received permission from BlackBrony to share this post.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-09 21:19:43

I mean, that's a valid assumption, but at the very least back in APOC they didn't have the classic $10 for 999 currency.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Embers

That gives me some hope that they won't use those types of scummy tactics, but we'll have to see. As for the reason - you're probably right in the assumption that it's to separate in-game purchases from spending irl money. There miiight be some kind of law that prohibits direct trading of $ for items, but I doubt it, considering other games have already done that afaik.

Post by JustVine on 2022-06-09 21:33:57

Because you will still play the game if they use it and are even scummy about it. It makes more money and captures your dollars into their revenue stream even if you don't spend it all.

As long as people care more about game play than they do the companies business practices and the law allows it, gaming companies with in game shops will always do this and it will always be the case.

Post by Amist on 2022-06-09 21:43:22

We have not received permission from Amist to share this post.

Post by Noaani on 2022-06-09 22:58:42

We have not received permission from Noaani to share this post.

Post by Balanz on 2022-06-09 23:23:14

We have not received permission from Balanz to share this post.

Post by Dygz on 2022-06-09 23:45:14

We have not received permission from Dygz to share this post.

Post by Noaani on 2022-06-09 23:57:05

We have not received permission from Noaani to share this post.

Post by BlackBrony on 2022-06-10 07:33:01

We have not received permission from BlackBrony to share this post.

Post by Happymeal2415 on 2022-06-10 18:26:16

We have not received permission from Happymeal2415 to share this post.

Post by Dygz on 2022-06-10 18:52:39

We have not received permission from Dygz to share this post.

Post by darthaden on 2022-06-10 19:17:02

We have not received permission from darthaden to share this post.

Post by Atama on 2022-06-10 21:59:53

We have not received permission from Atama to share this post.

Post by Atama on 2022-06-10 22:31:49

We have not received permission from Atama to share this post.

Post by Noaani on 2022-06-10 23:13:55

We have not received permission from Noaani to share this post.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-10 23:18:28

We have not received permission from Noaani to share the quoted post.
It also allows them to have regional prices. Especially if they stick with the "no transfers" policy (or at least no cross-regional transfers).

Post by Noaani on 2022-06-10 23:26:24

We have not received permission from Noaani to share this post.

Post by Atama on 2022-06-11 00:25:46

We have not received permission from Atama to share this post.

Post by Noaani on 2022-06-11 01:05:39

We have not received permission from Noaani to share this post.

Post by BlackBrony on 2022-06-11 14:53:28

We have not received permission from BlackBrony to share this post.

Post by BlackBrony on 2022-06-11 14:56:52

We have not received permission from BlackBrony to share this post.

Post by Sinder on 2022-06-11 15:12:49

We have not received permission from Sinder to share this post.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-11 15:16:58

We have not received permission from Sinder to share the quoted post.
You want me to be personally responsible?!!? Wtf is this bullshit?! I can't be personally responsible for the things that I do! I need the devs to always hold my hand, never give me anything more than what I paid for and then even tell me "don't buy more or you'll buy too much!". Though even that won't help cause I'm so deep into self-imposed desire to buy meaningless things that I have to be physically stopped by the game to prevent myself from buying things!! NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

Post by CROW3 on 2022-06-11 15:51:24

We have not received permission from CROW3 to share this post.

Post by JustVine on 2022-06-11 16:46:13

We have not received permission from Noaani to share the quoted post.

After checking with a professional on setting up these exact sort of systems you are right. It is definitely easier and will decrease their overhead and difficulty with coding their payment system. For those who are unfamiliar I linked their current policy[1] on paying subscriptions in embers in my sources cited below.

No matter how correct you are about it being easy though that doesn't change the fact that the way embers is currently set up (which is pretty traditional to all other mmos) is inherently manipulative and increases spending, no matter how 'pro consumer' they are. So let's lay down some basic facts and suppositions about Embers.

1. Embers is basically a gift card. It is there to capture your money into Intrepid's bank account directly on purchase. The moment you buy embers, IS gets your money and you can't spend that anywhere else or ask for a refund to exit the system because of some future pr disaster or just falling out of love with the game.
2. Gift cards have proven effects on increasing spending because they are separated from real money. They remove the 'pain' of purchasing from the act of purchasing the item. [2]
3. Currently you cannot buy only 1 ember. You must buy them in 'packs'. Unless IS standardizes their prices this will ultimately leave many customers in situations where they 'need to buy a whole other pack'. Different items WILL have different costs and 'packs' are inflexible relative to this problem.
4. It is not possible for Embers to represent prices at 1:1 if you start giving 'bonus' embers. This makes mental calculations significantly harder for the average person and make transactions less transparent. Now throw in something like 'stuff going on sale' and you have a completely opaque purchasing system.
5. The more opaque purchasing is, the greater the consumption [3][4]

Some of this is unavoidable, some of it is not. After all you can't really get around the foreign currency effect on purchasing distortion.[5] However, the more Intrepid makes things transparent, the more likely it is consumers will be able to more easily calculate their purchases. One possible solution? Having a quick reference chart displayed on the purchase page for embers for common cash shop items ember cost and the price of those embers relative to whatever currency(with a healthy dose of legal disclaimers) you have selected to pay for the embers is one such way IS can help ease the transparency of purchases.

Additionally if IS gives us a way to buy 1 ember rather than 'set packs' it will allow us to 'buy as much as we need and no further'. There are a large amount of benefits this would have in disrupting the manipulation posed by a 'pack only' system. It decreases the opaqueness of the purchase. It decreases the dissociation of pain from purchase. It also prevents the situation where you are eternally trapped in the system of 'in store credit' which compels people to want to capture that value over and over.

As things stand though, Embers are opaque and the 'bonus' they give distorts pricing calculations for the average consumer and are therefore 'only there for THEIR benefit'.

source:
[1] hiding the youtube link in a spoiler
https://youtu.be/zlcA95B122w?t=20m47s
[2] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2008/09/credit-cash
[3] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1027444717586 (I know this requires a sub, so I'm providing an alt link for a different article that says the same thing but uses less rigorous reasoning and data scrutiny)
[4] https://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/transparency.pdf
[5] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/STUDY-5-CURRENCY-AND-COUNTRY-OF-RESIDENCE-INTERACTION_fig1_24099144
[6] https://www.psychologyofgames.com/2020/01/the-perils-of-in-game-currency/ A summary of some the research here in a much easier to read format.

Post by insomnia on 2022-06-11 19:27:40

We have not received permission from insomnia to share this post.

Post by superhero6785 on 2022-06-12 12:33:10

We have not received permission from superhero6785 to share this post.

Post by Dygz on 2022-06-12 16:17:43

We have not received permission from Dygz to share this post.

Post by JustVine on 2022-06-12 20:48:54

Definition: "go to waste: be unused or expended to no purpose." [1]

Facts: You can't spend it elsewhere. Until you make another purchase it is wasted money. Embers are not money, they are a credit on your account you can only spend on IS.[2] Your choices are therefore to accept it is lost or buy more packs of embers in order to make an additional purchase. There is no in between. It is either wasted or used

Humans hate loss and avoid it when they can.[3]

Speculation: Account balances like this are a manipulation to get you to spend more money by pushing on that desire to avoid loss.They don't have to be built that way. They could build them such that you can buy exactly the amount you need. But they don't. And why they don't is quiet clear to me at least.

Sources:

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/go to waste
[2] https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Embers
[3] https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/loss-aversion

Post by ClintHardwood on 2022-06-13 00:12:39

We have not received permission from ClintHardwood to share this post.