Pessimistic about the mage

I treat that stuff under the "rule" of "only crazy people post on the internet". And in this particular case it's the crazies of the crazies. I'm somewhat of a spammer on the forums, but the dungeon Office Hours was the first discussion I attended and I saw that only a select few participated, let alone talked.

I'd assume Intrepid realize that those who give feedback during those discussions are only the insanely invested ones who have very particular views on things, that quite often differ from the general public's opinion.

Now, that being said, I do agree that mages are usually seen as hella OP in quite a lot of mmos, so it's kinda understandable why people would start yelling "don't make them OP" as soon as they get the chance. It's just about balance and good design. I think RPS balancing will help make mages not as OP as they might've been in other games.

Eh?

Three out of five? Five what? People on the 'stage'? Doesn't Intrepid choose some sub-number of those people that join the Office Hours as a representational sample or something?

I don't really know because I don't join these, but if 3 of 5 were saying such things, and you were there and NiKr too, then...

Anyways lmk if I need to go read in more detail about how Discord Stage and these sessions work.

Azherae wrote: »

I don't really know because I don't join these, but if 3 of 5 were saying such things, and you were there and NiKr too, then...

I wasn't there for the Mage one cause I don't care about mage that much. And I only texted in the dungeon discussion, cause I'm too shy about my spoken english

And Intrepid pick the ones who "raise their hand" out of the crowd. Back in the dungeon discussion it was pretty much the same people for all rounds and I'd almost bet that it was the same people in this discussion too, just cause I'm sure that people who were willing to talk previously would be way more likely to talk in the future.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I don't really know because I don't join these, but if 3 of 5 were saying such things, and you were there and NiKr too, then...

I wasn't there for the Mage one cause I don't care about mage that much. And I only texted in the dungeon discussion, cause I'm too shy about my spoken english

And Intrepid pick the ones who "raise their hand" out of the crowd. Back in the dungeon discussion it was pretty much the same people for all rounds and I'd almost bet that it was the same people in this discussion too, just cause I'm sure that people who were willing to talk previously would be way more likely to talk in the future.

Hm, ok, I'm familiar enough with this kind of thing, but I suppose without testing metrics it's not as if they can do more than this.

So it is.

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Well, I'd expect that 3 out of 5 players on average would prefer to 'make sure' that Mage was not OP, so it doesn't seem particularly 'off' to me or 'not representative'. So I'm not sure I understand the concern? I obviously didn't hear everything you heard, but I think I disagree with most of your points in your original post, actually.

So from a design perspective I guess I'd have been in the 3 out of the five, therefore I'm not sure if you should care about my opinion here anyway.

In any case, I feel like Intrepid is aware enough of my intentions, as you wish, so no concerns there.

I always feel that people should do their best to explain their positions with somewhat less emotional appeals (not less emotions, less 'attempts to poke at the emotions of others') in these situations, but 1. that's my opinion and 2. not everyone can.

I think Intrepid knows #2, so they'll do whatever is within their ability to filter out the technically useful parts.

We have not received permission from Songcaller to share the quoted post.

The OP's points don't seem to refer to anything 'OP' actually, they're points that people for various reasons 'have issues with in Mage design' whether they are 'OP' or not.

So while people often use that word as a catch-all, it is just an easy term to use instead of full explanations of why they hate the design type.

"Mobile mages with low-skill mana management and good CC options" is a fairly disliked design type in my circles when referring to group PvP games, particularly those with the implication of Ashes' intentions. I think I could also easily be swayed into agreeing with someone who says 'that type of Mage will just be OP in Ashes', even if it's only because I'd feel like I knew what they were 'really complaining about'.

We have not received permission from Songcaller to share the quoted post.

Well, if it matters, I'm referring to 'moving while casting', not 'Blink'.

And having CC on a Tank is different. Usually very different.

"When there are 8 mage classes they will all counter each other." - I feel like my reaction to this might be unfair because it sounds like such relatively dumb reasoning.

Wouldn't that just lead to a game where everyone wants to play Mage Primary if the Mage WAS a little OP? That's how I experience this normally. So I don't really get what 'point' you're making.

Mage has to almost by default, as a primary, be 'uncomfortable' enough that 87% of the population doesn't see it as their number one choice.

Within that, it has to STILL be 'slightly uncomfortable' enough that 87% of those who choose it 'have a thing about it that they want to augment with something other than Mage again'.

If 95% of people weren't either ambivalent or 'disinterested' in Mage, I'd moreso consider it a bad thing. I'm not a believer in the idea of 'competitive game where everyone is able to easily enjoy every option', that's a strong indicator to me that it's BDO-lite. Just homogenous flows that you can easily adapt to.

So, for Intrepid, if the 'plan' is to somehow have Mages counter other Mages, I'm opposed, I guess?

We have not received permission from Vaknar to share the quoted post.

Unfortunately even recent conversations on the forums have reminded me that I do not yet have the patience/control to be having design-related conversations with most people in real-time.

I feel like I'd not only be a negative toward getting useful feedback, but also outright disruptive to the goals and community Intrepid hopes to foster.

And I'm the one who talks here because I'm the most patient. Hopefully the Office Hours are achieving their goal, but I'm probably not a good fit for them. 'Overworking Moderators' is one of my many middle names.