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Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 14:00:11
It may be temporarily more helpful to think of this as a system where having two /Tank in a party is equivalent to having one Tank/X. This particular thing has been done before at least twice, FFXI being the main example. However, having just one /Tank is much less useful and generally not sufficient for non-specialized content. This can be done. It's not overwhelmingly difficult, give a sufficiently talented designer a spreadsheet and a clear goal and they can do it. The question will be balance and meta, since the way in which players will complain is likely to ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 14:03:44
Oh don't even get me started. Have you seen the Siege video? I can't even.
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 14:28:46
Allow me to demonstrate then. First assume that Tank Augments come in three forms, possibly the ability to choose one form for each primary ability of your class, "Damage Mitigation", "Threat Generation", "Enemy Repositioning". The compatibility of certain main archetype abilities with these will not always be good for tanking, sometimes a player might even choose /Tank to get something for soloing or bounty hunting. Let's look at Ranger, because there is no current Ranger known except what is on the wiki now and that is probably going to change. Ranger/Tank can use Bow's Combo. This ability is basic ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 14:49:46
It really just isn't that much work though. 8x8? That's like a week, tops, for me, if I only have to do it through Augment theory. And before anyone asks I am a programmer, have been a relatively senior programmer, and still assist with certain indie stuff. Yes, the coding is hard sometimes, but it's always little fiddly things that you needed to do anyway. The programming structure for how to do it, especially if they're moving away from UE4's Actors for abilities and such, as clarified in the last stream, is relatively simple once you have the base ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 15:14:57
@Merek - It is a little disingenuous to say that BDO is successful as an MMO within the genre/type that Ashes is almost objectively striving towards. By their own admission their class balance is quite bad, even their large scale PvP was functionally ruined as far as most players were concerned just recently, and while the game has quite a few 'active players', understand that BDO builds its metrics almost solely by manipulating the player to literally never log off . I'm not saying that people don't enjoy BDO. Or its combat. Or even that they don't form guilds ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 15:18:53
I can't say, I hope they didn't go back just because 'people don't like being stuck in place', because that won't actually solve the problem, in my experience, it will create a much larger, more annoying one, that will be harder to catch, raising the chances that it will be pushed too far and then it might be 'too late'. I really, really hope it isn't just that...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 16:33:49
Now technically, you missed this one, but they have always promised that there will be similar if not better cosmetics and designs in game.
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 16:42:24
Taking the opportunity to reiterate the current compilation again since it puts it near or at the top of the page, so it lets me put the reasonings back in it and improve the language. No corrections or updates, since most of the discussion has been philosophical. Current Compilation/MVP 1. Directional control over the Q/LMB attack, specifically being able to 'slide attack' left or right with a fixed animation and distance, two separate strikes as the character spins, with no way for both attacks to hit a character except if they chose the same direction at the same time ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 16:50:18
This is true, and also a point of discussion. Should we have stamina? I expect it would be intended, but maybe Dodge should still have a cooldown, or it will get... interesting. Rolling at least twice could be good? Would it be acceptable to limit it to two, in your opinion @Neurath ?
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 17:02:38
Here's an example of what I mean. This is not what I think the augments need to be or even should be. That can't be true because we don't know how most of the classes even work. I'm doing this from just reverse engineering the names of the classes, and using them to fill in the blanks. If a name exists, and there's no Augment that would allow that name to make sense, I made the appropriate thing. I think I hit them all (some names are not well defined in other media, obviously). Mage Augments : Meteoric Impact ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-29 18:01:34
Tanks do almost precisely two things. Mitigate damage. Maintain more hate/threat than anyone else in the party more or less consistently. The tank abilities themselves, interestingly, so far, are not strictly based on 'tanking' at all. That is, the actual ability does not usually do this, it just usually 'naturally generates more threat'. There are some good damage mitigation ones, but what if, for some reason, that's not what you need, or what if someone else is providing that, and you're free to not do so? In FFXI, the Ninja class and Monk class are 'not supposed to be ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-30 07:44:49
This is an equation though. If I ask 'why can't a Fighter/Tank be a tank', here's what prevents that overall. 1. Can they do more DPS than a tank? Probably, or we may not see a lot of Fighters... 2. Can they find a way to take near or less damage than a tank? Probably harder, but most of the tank abilities so far don't do damage reduction consistently, or other classes can help provide a lot of this. 3. Can they control adds (for some this might even be optional)? Dunno, but this is pretty binary. 4. Can ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-30 07:53:40
If they did split the stamina, if we consider where we are so far, should Brace be on the side of Combat stamina? The MVP currently 'doesn't care' much if Sprint or Dodge or 'get up from prone' or whatever else, use the same stamina as weapon abilities. Due to this, it would mainly be a question of 'which one of these things, when overused, should prevent the player from being able to Brace for CC reduction?' I've also reviewed the other Combat related posts for today, but they seem to be addressing different things, or minutiae of expectations, ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-30 08:16:34
What I mean is this (I'm often the tank or the healer or sometimes both for my group in nearly any MMO). Let's assume that I have one DPS player who is doing 200 damage every 30 seconds. My tank character does 100 damage every 30 seconds, generates the equivalent threat of 200 damage through abilities, and takes only 75 damage, in that 30 seconds. I hold the enemy. If that DPS player does a big ability and takes attention for 10 seconds, and then take 50 damage, multiple things happen (you're a tank so you're obviously familiar with ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-30 08:36:18
I think that the main thing here might be a philosophy thing, (from Intrepid's side/Steven's mind, rather than between the posters discussing things here). I can tank in many groups as the healer because of community. My group knows what to do, they know how to rotate things, they know what to expect and when to hold off on their abilities because of my rotations. In short, the social aspect of the game has opened new opportunities. Sometimes opportunities that other groups don't even have because 'this fight requires more healing than usual so the healer is in danger' ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-31 11:05:46
Hi all, you may know me from the other combat related threads where I post huge walls of text to explain things. As you can see, this is another, but I've chosen to put this one in its own discussion because it is technically a derail of every other thread. In order to keep this shorter, I'll be leaving out a lot of priming or 'relating' language. I'll try my best not to use too many examples that reference fighting games, but it will be unavoidable. This post has a very precise purpose. There are things that some members ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-31 17:44:41
In fighting games that's known as a Kara ('empty') Cancel, I mention this in case I slip up and use the term without explanation later. It is interesting but 'abusable' as it drastically shrinks the window of time that the opponent has to react to what they see on screen. It could be implemented in interesting ways, but the animations in general would have to be much slower. In general, it's neither specifically a good or bad idea in action-y games, but based on cursory analysis, it would be terrible in Ashes because it would get too hard to ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-31 17:49:13
Here's the pitfalls post I mentioned I'd make. Aiming to avoid derailing this thread. Don't really want to derail it with a discussion about whether or not BDO is successful either. But there was no big post today in here because of the above.
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-31 17:53:01
I didn't know it was so specific, actually. This is mildly concerning for another reason, because if that's not a 'hard pass', i.e. they're committed to never considering it, then we have to watch a lot more carefully for how fast the skills and combo attacks get shifted. A lot of requests for the Action half of the Hybrid combat are likely to focus around this sort of thing. We've seen it already, but building a system starting from 'We don't want animation cancels' and then taking a lot of feedback from people who insist they're important, could be ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-05-31 20:11:30
I'm used to having to do it. I'm told that I'm a really arrogant person and I offend people easily because I'm actually incredibly toxic and rude naturally. It's not likely to stop, I don't think. Partially comes from my career too. Telling the CEO that his idea of how to run his development team is stupid and incorrect doesn't go over well. Gotta start with a full explanation about how you aren't trying to be insubordinate, undermining, or 'think you're the boss around here', before you say how stupid it is.
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-01 09:58:16
Well, what would you like to do, exactly? It's easier for a designer to reverse engineer wishes into a balanced thing, than to 'stab in the dark and hope they manage to make something you like'. Assuming you have a wish, even an extremely specific wish, it's very likely to be considered because there are lots of ways to 'make sure you have a path to what you want' without necessarily overcomplicating the whole class. If you just 'want to try something different', what would you consider 'different enough'?
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-01 11:18:06
An interesting point from one of the other threads, should jumping use stamina? If there is any chance that simply jumping can help to avoid an ability, or worse, somehow avoid melee under certain conditions (all you Star Wars watchers know what I'm talking about, I see you Obi Wan), then there might be a good reason to put a limit on 'spamming jump', even if jumping locks the player out from doing anything else. Pros: Limits players who just jackrabbit during PvP for no reason, and also allows more flexibility in balancing mechanics and jumping itself, in combat. ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-01 13:14:27
I'm breaking my team's 'only one of us posts in any given discussion thread' rule to jump on this as well. I don't think I'd change the gold shimmer, but rather, the central skyline beacon, that's currently reddish. This way, there's less confusion when two different opposing Clerics put the skill in the exact same spot. You can immediately look for the 'upwards shaft of light' and move toward 'ally colored' light, away from 'enemy colored' light, and still be able to tell if the two are in almost the same space due to how thin the light column ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-01 15:42:40
Ah, sorry, yes. Have you played FFXI? I'm trying to understand if you have this wish because you have had the experience before, or because you specifically haven't, since the 'concern type' is different. That's a game where it isn't too difficult to find all sorts of ways to tank, at least respectably, using just basic game mechanics. Two or three clearly defined tanks, at least seven alternate special tanks for tanking enemies with particular mechanics or attack styles. Our summoner does not do much tanking in that game, but she could have. We expect that the way she ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-01 16:11:13
Nothing specific yet, since we haven't had clarity on Augments. If I remember I'll ping you if I see anything, or whenever they get around to that.
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-01 19:25:17
The current discussion is mostly at 'how precisely this should work', actually. There are multiple people so far, who disagree completely, but the Compilation is actually designed to work almost exactly the same whether the player tab-targets or not. So @HellzBlessing , I have a question. Is it important for you, that a less skilled player has lower accuracy with their melee attacks and skills, assuming that they are not just spamming the button? If the player is 'trying to spin the camera to keep track of the other player, using their skills at the right time, but isn't ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-02 00:25:58
Indeed. A ball is round.
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-02 08:43:47
This particular discussion is likely to lead to philosophical disagreement, which is useless only because the terms of disagreement are too loosely defined. Posters who disagree over the combat, I ask for your time, to define your terms. "Spammy" - This is reasonable description of the two top videos you can find of people playing on YouTube. "Excited comments on YouTube" - These are mostly not visible in easily searched videos, there are either no comments, or comments of a specific type, but at least one currently easily searched video has some. But if you turned Ashes into a ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-02 09:06:19
The reason that Ashes only has 8 Classes is (whether through intentional design or convergent evolution) the fact that MMOs, especially fantasy MMOs, always have only 8 or 9 different design archetypes. "The protected one who takes or avoids the brunt of the damage while holding enemy focus" "The one that gets close and hits things really hard or fast." "The one that stays far and hits things really hard and can hit many" "The one that stays far and hits things really hard focusing on just one." "The one that heals damage." "The one that specializes in ranged ...
Post by Azherae on 2021-06-02 09:10:52
I'm gonna throw this link in here too even though it's sort of spamming/repetition from the other thread. Twice the complaints! (I'm serious, please complain). Battles are at 3:00, 5:35, 6:55, 10:31, 11:20 (tower objective group battle), 13:25 (another), 17:00, etc