Melee Combat Feedback Post 7/30 Livestream

We have not received permission from Khronus to share the quoted post.

But why is it fun? I absolutely believe that you are having more fun. I don't want you to lose that fun. But your current words make it sound like all you want is to be able to move .

Not 'make sure an enemy can't hit you with dynamic attacks'. Not 'make decisions based on range'. Again, this is only from what you've said. If you're content just 'being able to move at all', then I actually think you are who @Ugoogee was trying to appeal to by just leaving both systems in (which is possible IF all you want is to be able to move around).

I hope and expect that Bow, Wand, and Spellbook would stay as Split Body no matter what happens, and it probably doesn't matter if 1H Sword and Mace just keep the 'can toggle this'. You're, by your own admission, simpler and less likely to get bored.

@Okeydoke - It's easy to keep saying 'most' MMO players want X or Y, but according to Cypher, even the polls from Intrepid themselves sometimes indicate it's not that simple.

It's been repeatedly said that the game will have 'a reasonable' number of Abilities. I expect 20 tops, and even 20 would be a lot. I expect more than 10, but some would be Weapon Skills that are close range.

As for your link, I don't know how up to date that is. Intrepid would have to clarify if they still intend to use the 'Focus' system, which leads to a different style of play altogether (yay Skillchains plz?)

We have not received permission from Okeydoke to share the quoted post.

In my experience MMOs are relatively evenly split between 'lots of abilities' and 'specific lines on which you can occasionally activate abilties'.

One important thing is that if the weapon Focus system is still in, it means that Weapon Skills are likely to be tied to it, which will make it more like FFXI, which will be good, but also mean that the number of abilities one has available to just use 'on demand' will be even smaller.

As an FFXI fan, I obviously wouldn't complain to see Weapon Skills come back into a game, I have already stated that I consider them literally the best MMORPG mechanic of all time.

But their appearance in Ashes would have a massive number of implications, and I feel that if they were going to have them, we might have seen some sign of it by now.

We have not received permission from Khronus to share the quoted post.

I just didn't want to assume that it wasn't possible to meet you halfway or something. As I've said many times, I'm naturally toxic so I've learned not to assume other people's opinions are 'no, I don't care about what you want, your idea of fun is trash' until they explicitly say that.

No sarc, no negativity when I ask, can I assume that your response is actually saying that? It doesn't make much sense to engage on nuance or specifics if so, and I'm sure you don't want to waste your time either.

We have not received permission from Okeydoke to share the quoted post.

Well, I will once again vehemently disagree with this on behalf of many other posters that have said what I'm about to say.

Both systems are not still being tested, because the system that the 'people who don't want Free Motion' want, isn't the system in Ashes now, so we're not testing against that.

There are a lot of little bits that matter here, that aren't being tested, because the root motion combat isn't tuned to the correct settings. Technically the free motion combat isn't tuned to the correct settings either. The bigger question is 'why'?

If there's no time, or it's scheduled for Alpha-2, then it's fine, but there isn't likely to be a compromise when one group says 'this feels terrible', then the other group agrees but has to go 'that's not how it's supposed to feel though...'

This comes up a lot in conversations, even you and I have the same sort of interaction a few times. Our experiences don't match, so it's hard to understand why I want something. Our expectations don't match, so it's hard for me to understand why you want something.

Unfortunately I think this might be the one part of the decision where there is no compromise. The free motion character doesn't move even 1.5 T-Poses in the slash animation time when strafing, and I can't imagine people accepting less than 90 degree attack cones.

It's a rough life. Hang in there, Intrepid Combat Design Person. Hang in there.

We have not received permission from Khronus to share the quoted post.

No problems here. I honestly deal much better with anyone who is toxic while listening, it's only the 'not listening' part that bothers me, and I know from both this thread and other discussions on forums that you're almost always listening, taking all the ideas in, and then deciding 'nah, don't care, that's not what I want, period'.

Maybe one day I'll get to do it more too. But please continue to be toxic at least to me, you can assume I have the understanding of it, even if I sometimes complain at you if I think you're not listening (which, again, never seems to be the case).

We have not received permission from Khronus to share the quoted post.

As you've probably noticed, I'm the nerd in that situation. But you can feel free to kill me for my loot instead. We can have a whole 'healthy rivalry' thing.

Meet once every few 'ingame years' to fight about whose combat style makes more sense.

Well, now I have additional actual feedback from my testing of something. The 1H mace 'combo' currently in the game, when you switch to Free Motion attacking, is inconsistent, and I 'don't know why'.

I can't call this a 'bug', because it's not clear if it is supposed to be slightly random or not, but so far, I seem to experience a change where the first hit plays twice, if I use it after using an ability, but once if I just attack. This happens whether or not I am in combat with an actual target, and with or without directions pressed, and much more concerningly, it doesn't seem to care 'how long ago I pressed the ability, as long as I didn't leave the combat state', and sometimes even if I leave it.

Aside from the problem this causes with my timings, which I can adapt to, it indicates something about the way the attack handler is implemented that I don't like, but I don't know how to explain in 'layman's terms' enough to have a conversation about it, so instead I'll just ask others what other weapons they are seeing this with, while I go test others. Is this just a Cleric thing? I really hope so...

Azherae wrote: »

Well, now I have additional actual feedback from my testing of something. The 1H mace 'combo' currently in the game, when you switch to Free Motion attacking, is inconsistent, and I 'don't know why'.

I can't call this a 'bug', because it's not clear if it is supposed to be slightly random or not, but so far, I seem to experience a change where the first hit plays twice, if I use it after using an ability, but once if I just attack. This happens whether or not I am in combat with an actual target, and with or without directions pressed, and much more concerningly, it doesn't seem to care 'how long ago I pressed the ability, as long as I didn't leave the combat state', and sometimes even if I leave it.

Aside from the problem this causes with my timings, which I can adapt to, it indicates something about the way the attack handler is implemented that I don't like, but I don't know how to explain in 'layman's terms' enough to have a conversation about it, so instead I'll just ask others what other weapons they are seeing this with, while I go test others. Is this just a Cleric thing? I really hope so...

Unfortunately I have confirmed with my group that this is not just 'A Cleric thing'. I have also confirmed a lot of other things. Out of respect for Intrepid's developers I will not be going into what it means, or rather, what I speculate it means, but I also probably won't express any further opinions on this test.