Wondering about a slight change to the flagging system

Post by CROW3 on 2022-05-14 18:56:23

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-14 19:12:01

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-14 19:13:40

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 19:24:03

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Except you might go red because you don't see your target's hp so you don't know which of your hits can kill them. But yes, you won't be penalized for just attacking a person w/o killing them. If Steven wanted to punish people for attacking other people, he'd implement your system or would just remove open world pvp because that's exactly what will happen if your system was implemented.

Post by CROW3 on 2022-05-14 19:46:11

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Post by Sigtyr on 2022-05-14 19:46:49

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-14 19:57:17

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Post by JustVine on 2022-05-14 19:59:16

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I think it was more so your obtuseness and giggling more than being told no. Your sense of humor is a bit caustic, possibly more than some people are used to. I don't mind it, but it could be jarring to some people. @Alacrite just needs to learn to not take it personally as it is something you do with everyone equally.

Post by Okeydoke on 2022-05-14 20:04:17

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 20:48:55

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I'm pretty sure it would increase griefing. The griefers from the current system would stay the same, except they'd probably be even more annoying because they'd follow you around for longer, waiting for their flag timers to reset after each hit. So they'd be hanging above you for, potentially, dozens of minutes, like that one killer with a spoon from the meme video.
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He might want to kill you if he deems it rewarding enough against the risk of becoming red if you decide not to fight back. And with each hit that you don't return, his risk goes up. And considering how long the ttk in Ashes supposed to be, the attacker will have quite a bit of time to rethink the risks and rewards.
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Your system creates a catch-22. From the pov of an attacker, there's no reason to do a weak attack.

Under your system, if you want to remove someone from a farming location, your only choice is to kill your target (unless you're somehow so much stronger that you can completely outfarm them). One weak hit would obviously not remove the target, but it would bring you up to the 100% chance to become a red player if you attack them more. But if your target is farming mobs, there's a chance that doing your strongest hit could put them at risk of doing from a mob and they might run away at which point you might be able to take over the farm cycle. But if your hit doesn't achieve that, your only choice is to run away or become a PKer immediately. Well, you could obviously be a dick and do the harassment technique that I wrote above, but rn I'm talking about a dude that might want to avoid doing that.

At the same time, doing a big hit on a green player lowers their chance of fighting back because they'll feel like it's an unfair situation. And hell, why should they even fight back right now, when they could just tank another hit and then try to kill a Red player and get way more loot off of them. "If the attacker already went red then they will obviously try to kill me, so I might as well fight back and get a chance at some juicy loot. They might even have stat dampen and I'm gonna win!"

And now you have a win-win situation for the green player and a lose-lose situation for the attacker.

In the current system, there's a choice for the attacker. Do you want to have a fair pvp? You do a small attack and give the target a chance to fight back. They didn't? Hit them again to tell them to scram. They still didn't fight back? Now's your main decision and risk-weighing. Do you go red to remove them or does the location not warrant the risk?

The other initial choice is to immediately hit them with your big abilities explicitly telling them you want to take over the farm. If the green player believes in their power, they might still fight back.

And from the pov of the green player in the current system they also have more choices. They might fight back right away if they like pvp. They might test the attacker's willingness to PK them. And even at the very end of that test, the green player still have the choice of "do I want to suffer normal penalties or do I want to lose half the stuff?"

In your system there's no such decision-making. For a green player (no matter where they are on the pvx spectrum) the best decision is to wait for the second hit and then start fighting back. If the second hit never comes, you just continue farming. If it comes, you can fight back w/o becoming a freebie for all the other people around you and you have a chance at juicy PKer loot.

And this decision tree only leads to more dissatisfaction on all sides. If the green player dies while trying to kill the Red, they lose more stuff. If the Red player kills their target, even if they might've just wanted to shoo them away, they'll be severely punished (well, on top of being punished for just hitting a dude twice). And any stronger player feels bad for wasting their time on becoming stronger, because that power is useless when you get punished for using it.
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The current situation already gives the opportunity to go into pvp with "proper intent". And the punishment is there to stop people from genociding everyone around them. And the tuning will be done during the alpha2 to figure out how much punishment should a kill give.

Dygz believes that the punishment will be so big that people rarely PK each other at all. I believe it'll be scaled depending on character lvl difference. Same-lvled people shouldn't get too much corruption, while killing a person a few lvls below you should give you quite a lot and killing someone >10 lvls below you should cripple you like a damn semi-truck running you over. The reality will probably be somewhere in-between, but I highly doubt it'll be punishing people for hitting others, because if Steven wanted that kind of system, he'd just implement a toggle or just have no pvp at all.
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And the current system encourages a fair fight way more than yours does. At least under the current penalties and their implementations. And I don't see a point in changing those as well, just to fit your system, when people haven't even tested the current one.

Post by George_Black on 2022-05-14 21:22:41

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Post by SirChancelot on 2022-05-14 22:44:20

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 22:47:16

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I think Alacrite means that a random player is still free to kill another player at any time, so the result doesn't change at the end. Even though the path to that result is different.

Post by unknownsystemerror on 2022-05-14 23:25:37

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Post by Dygz on 2022-05-14 23:44:24

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-14 23:48:48

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 23:50:46

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In Alacrite's system a green becomes purple after hitting another green. But purple immediately becomes red if they attack a green. So any green has a free hit against anyone, but anymore outgoing damage towards a green player would immediately turn red.

I also forgot to ask Alacrite how would dots work in that system lol. Would that be one hit or several? Imagine becoming red because you missclicked and used a dot instead of a singular spell.

Post by Dygz on 2022-05-14 23:51:45

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 23:55:58

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You missed an E at the end of the ping.

Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-15 00:10:49

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-15 00:14:15

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-15 00:25:21

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-15 00:29:58

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-15 00:31:22

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Post by Liniker on 2022-05-15 01:06:11

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Post by bloodprophet on 2022-05-15 03:39:01

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-15 04:15:52

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Alacrite understands the system just fine. They just want to change it.

Post by Noaani on 2022-05-15 05:22:31

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Post by akabear on 2022-05-15 07:19:03

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Post by Alacrite on 2022-05-15 09:18:35

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