I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

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Funny seeing this kind of argument after several people super deep into tab games have told you that they felt that combat in those games felt fluid. You haven't played those games as much as those people, yet you yell about it not being fluid just because you've watched a few videos on them.

NiKr wrote: »

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Waiting to see what they show. If it's f2p and available to me - definitely gonna at least try it. I'm 99% sure it's gonna be a p2w piece of shit, even if the game itself is semi-decent, so if it costs money - I ain't supporting that shit. It was supposed to be L3 back in the day (along with several other games) so I hope they manage to have a good game, but I really don't trust NCsoft to make a well-balanced non-p2w game.

Current information indicates the P2W element will be low, but that's just 'promises to make sure it's fair'.

Other clearer information around it however does indicate there are structures implied where it won't be 'direct' P2W in any real way

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So, if a Tab game doesn't have Global Cooldown, is it fine?

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So... 'Tab Games without GCD are broken by design'?

Hm... no, you clarified... 'If you have to do a full animation'...

I'm just learning new things here, I didn't really play a lot of those 'You hit the button and your stuff works regardless of anything else with no animation requirement' games.

Thanks for that.

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You've played hundreds and thousands of hours of EQ2/L2/FF11? I don't remember you ever mentioning that. You keep complaining about gcds slowing down combat and making it way less fluid, yet L2 didn't have a single shred of gcd and literally worked like an action game: you're locked in an animation of an ability; you can cancel out of that animation any time you want and cast smth else immediately. I dunno how EQ2 or FF11 were cause I haven't played them, but I trust Noaani and Azherae if they say it felt fluid to them (though I don't remember if Azherae said that FF11 was super fluid).

You generalizing all tab games is the same as me looking at NW's combat and saying "holy fuck all action games are trash and boring and limited".

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"I have played bad tab target MMOs and I don't want Ashes to be like that."

"That's great, I have played good tab target MMOs and I don't want Ashes to be like the bad ones either."

Have you tried 'assuming that the people who like Tab Target ones have played the good ones'?

Not saying it's definitely true, but it might help to have productive discussion if you start there instead.

This is how it goes now. You claim something that is not true of all Tab Target MMOs, someone else claims something that is not true of all Action Combat MMOs, then you and that person argue.

Our Discourse is built on a foundation of LIES. LIES I SAY!

Seriously, please stop.

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Yeah, and I didn't play shadowbane so I dunno how it was. But I played ~30h of wow classic tbc. And you know what I hated literally the second I started playing? THE FUCKING GCD

I came from over 10 years of a tab game and the first thing I hated in another tab game (that allegedly has amazing and fluid combat, according to a ton of people on the internet) was the god damn gcd.

Your generalization of all tab games only puts you into a bad spot in these arguments.

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How about this? What Action Combat games don't have ability spam? To me in Action Ability spam is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then that would be part of the normal kind of Action Combat MMORPGS.

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I dunno cause I haven't played those. But that's not even my main point here. My experience was unique in some way, just as yours or Noaani's or Azherae's. And I respect any of those experiences enough to trust those people when/if they say "to me this part of the game felt fluid". I mainly rely on their words exactly because I haven't played those games extensively myself. But they have.

You seem to have not played those games either, yet you base your whole argument on completely different games you've played. This doesn't only show a very narrow-minded outlook on things, but, imo, shows disrespect to other people's experiences. By you saying "all tab games are literally same shit and are never fluid", you're literally telling Noaani that his years of playing the game were worthless and he should've been playing smth else. Obviously I'm sure that Noaani doesn't think that because, to me it seems, he has enough self-respect and confidence to not get hurt by someone else's opinion, but the underlying attitude of the discussion remains the same. You bring other people's experiences down just because you think that your opinion is the only valid one.

Actually here's an interesting point I've just thought of, since I might as well talk even MORE, right?

I personally feel that people who have played too many MMOs have generally played a lot of bad MMOs.

Two reasons:

1. Most MMOs are bad.
2. If they had a particularly good MMO to play, since most good MMOs don't die, and don't get stale all that fast, they would have focused their time on that one and not had time to play too many others to the point where they would know if they were good or not.

So, if you've played a lot of MMOs, I should just assume you played a lot of crappy knock-offs that came up in that era.

If in 12 years someone tells me 'I played only Ashes of Creation for the last 8 years so I don't know much about how $Random2022MMO works, sorry', I want to be able to think of that person as as Person Of Culture (TM) and not 'some MMO noob who doesn't have real experience'.

Only Gordon Ramsay goes around eating other people's poorly prepared food on purpose.