My Dream for Crafting...

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Rude.

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I just want the same acceptance for my dear creations as for humans of equal intelligence to them, is that so wrong?!

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From what I understand of the planned system, you'll be crafting several things before the final item, so this minigame would only impact ~<10% of the overall crafting? So you're not really removing tediousness of pressing a button and looking at the bar move.

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And that is exactly why I don't want minigames. It's about scale and relative amount of crafting per crafter. Guild will have just a few crafters, each specializing in some sub-branch of the system. Each of those crafters will be crafting those specific things for their entire guild (40+ people). So it's, at the very least, dozens upon dozens of crafts per crafter, with some of them crafting thousands of times. And all of those crafts will have to be perfect, because guilds will require that.

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Yes, and those singular low-mid lvl crafters wouldn't care about the tediousness either way, because they're not crafting hundreds of items.

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This kinda goes against the whole "profession progress" idea imo. You've spent hours/days/weeks leveling up your profession and mastery, yet your chance to fail a craft constantly increases. To me that doesn't make sense.

The risk in the item system comes from OEing (at least currently). Steven disliked the crafting risks in L2 and decided to remove those, while keeping the risk of item destruction if you want to make it more powerful than it is.

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It's exactly because I don't think that everyone will be crafting that I think having a minigame would be tedious. If 10 people were making one item each, it wouldn't be tedious for each person (relatively speaking), but when one person is making 10 items instead, it becomes tedious for that one person. I know because I've been that person for yeaaaars in L2. Mats were still rare and still required hours of gameplay to acquire, be it through mob grinding or just boss respawn timers. But because I had to craft for a guild of 120++ members, I usually set for several hours clicking "craft". And in L2 there wasn't a bar. It was instantaneous. And I still spent hours just crafting gear. And L2 required fewer gear pieces than Ashes will, so I can't even begin to imagine being a guild crafter in Ashes if it has minigames.

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I haven't played WoW so I dunno whether I'd like it or not, but as Azherae and you yourself stated in later comments, it's about the community and the reputation you get from being a crafter. Spending those hours crafting same gear in L2 wasn't tedious to me, because I knew that people spent even more time acquiring those items and that my work would be highly appreciated. I didn't need some simplistic minigame to make the process fun and rewarding, because the reward was me providing gear for my guildies.

If anything, I'd say have the minigames work the other way around. The lower the crafting lvl of the crafter, the more minigames you have in crafting. All the casual crafters will have their fun with playing minigames once a day or rarer, while all the hardcore guild crafters won't have their crafting time prolonged by unneeded mechanics.

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There is literally nothing you cannot make a bot to do.

Especially in this age when the underlying structures required for making bots are easily available, either custom ones that have been built over time due to all the other games, or just extremely boilerplate that is outright available on GitHub.

The only way to defeat bots is to make systems that require a person to think or grow (their character, separately from the system that then uses that growth), not just 'react'.

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That sounds a bit like EVE's system. But while it makes sense in the context of hugeass cosmic ships being built or stuff for those sips being crafted/researched, I'm not sure if it would fit in AoC's lore. Or if players would even accept that kind of system.

I could maybe see a requirement for several crafters to make a single item cause irl some things would be made by several people at the same time, but this limits future crafting possibilities. What if you need 3 crafters of the top rank to craft some top item, but on the whole server there's only 2 crafters of that rank and they're in the warring guilds. You could say "that's the intended gameplay", but I'm not sure how many people would be ok with that kind of limitation.

Yes, you need cooperation and all that, but there should be a limit on how much cooperation any given thing requires. By the time you come to a point where you can craft the final item, you would have already spent hours upon hours of man-hours across several professions and several characters. Would that not be enough cooperation?

At the end of the day the game is trying to be competitive (considering open world bosses and pvp and shit), so cross-guild cooperation might not be the goal of its design. Either way, we'll have to see what exactly they have in mind for their system.

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We'll definitely have to see how they design the system itself. I've been a guild crafter multiple times and ~60% of my gameplay was purely crafting, even though it was just a "press button and get the item immediately". If Ashes makes it so that you can be a 100% crafter, because all you do is play the crafting minigame - I'm not sure if that's much better than me just spending the majority of my time crafting, while I can also do other stuff. Minigame doesn't make the experience more fun, unless Intrepid's attitude towards crafting minigames is the same as to pve content and they literally make a few dozen games with some rng in them, so it's literally a game within a game.

And if, by chance, they do go down that path, my main feedback is - I don't want that. I'm gonna be a crafter and I want to craft a shitton of things for my node. But I do not want to spend literally my whole gameplay just crafting and not doing anything else.

I expect to be the processor for my group.

I like it.

I like it in lots of games, and I don't mind a minigame. But I don't want anyone to get the illusion that a minigame that is even slightly repetitive is in any way a solution to either botting or interest. Those that are interesting are usually bottable (I mean, basically they all are except one specific kind that no one will put in as a PROCESSING minigame), and those that aren't worth botting are not interesting.

Once again though, I don't hate minigames for processing, I just don't agree that they have a real purpose except as a stopgap for games with poor itemization.

For actual item crafting such as Armorsmithing and so on, I have no strong opinion other than 'people will bot this if a bot can achieve a perfect result and anything else is dangerous to that perfect result'. I believe you can fight botting with itemization but not with minigames.