Jail and bounty hunter as punishment for corrupted players

You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail. If you want to tie some pointless jury to that - you can.

And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).

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That's why I said that the reported player can return immediately. The player doesn't die, while still remaining in the same place. And the system would definitely need to track repeated report sends. If the same 3 dudes go around reporting every single person they see - they get pinged for harassment and get sent to jail just like a bot would (except with maybe no immediate escape).

And obviously all of this is under the pretense that there's a live GM that would get pinged by all those reports and could monitor the situation live.

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I mean, that applies to any issue relating to GMs though. There's an exploit in the game? Think of how many times it'll be used at scale and how much will the in-game system flag it for GMs? There's harassment of other players? Same shit. There's mass reporting? Same shit.

That's the usual case with live GMing, so it's on Intrepid to setup the tools required for those GMs to maximize their output w/o burning themselves out. Some automation of the imprisoning here and there, with GM pings for later checkup. Some abuse prevention of "if reported the same person twice within some period of time - turn off reporting. If reported multiple people in the span of some short period of time - jail for 5 mins. If continues to do so - jail longer and ping GMs".

Stuff like that can alleviate some of the scale issues, but GM's job is to look at everything they need to look at, of which there'll be a ton.

NiKr wrote: »

You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail. If you want to tie some pointless jury to that - you can.

And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).

As someone who's written bots before: Waste of time. No bot I'dve written is gonna have trouble with any reasonable task you request short of actual captchas and even those aren't exactly perfect.

As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.

At the end of the day, if you had the GMs online to monitor and respond immediately to something like this, you wouldn't need the jail. The GM would just ban the bots when you report them.

Systems like this are more effort than they're worth, and don't stop enough bots to justify the cost or the annoyance to legitimate players. Add on any potential for abuse, and you've got a non-starter. It's better to focus one's resources on other methods of dealing with the problem. Proactive automated and manual detection, review, and response is still the optimal counter to the problem of bots as a whole.

The problem for us forum-goers is that we can't just discuss good ideas for how to detect or counter bots for real. It'd just give the bot writers more hints for what to evade. At the end of the day, we have to trust the people at Intrepid.

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I mean, the benefit would be the removal of potential bots w/o gaining corruption (in case you don't care about their loot). And depending on how those automated systems will be set up, some bots might circumvent them and just keep grinding, while all those GMs are super busy with smth else.

SongRune wrote: »

As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.

The system could be tracking the amount of people around the reported person relative to the amount of reports received. Or maybe just track event participation (be it bosses/sieges/whatever).

But yes, active GMs and proper anti-bot system are supposed to prevent this stuff from happening, but we all know that they won't be 100% effective.

Either way, this was just a suggestion for any kind of use for the prison system, cause I find the suggested use to be utter shite

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You still drop stuff on normal death too. And your stats decrease too, if you "delevel" by the way of XP debt. Dropping gear is just a logical upscaling of punishment for dying for criminals.

And grinding off your corruption is not a punishment, it's a way to avoid said punishment. And the BH system is there to make that avoidance harder.

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It has logic in the design's intent. Steven's trying to promote pvping so dying flagged reduces your penalties. Steven wants pve to have its own risks so dying to a mob unflagged has higher penalties than dying in pvp. And Steven wants to deter people from attacking pacifists, while still allowing such activities, so dying red has ever-increasing penalties (volume-wise, even though multiplier stays the same). And to prevent genocides as much as possible, high PK counts have the highest possible penalties of dropping gear. That looks like a logical progression of penalties, considering the design of the game.

But if I drop/lose stats during pvp/pve and then all of a sudden go to jail after killing someone, that feels like a complete sidestep of the system rather than a progress within it.

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Except the current design makes it exciting and an in-game feature, while jail makes it boring and takes you out of gameplay.

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And in my experience ~30% of karma (corruption) removal was done by other players, either by the victim themselves or by someone else. And the only reason that percentage is low was because there was no BH system and the karma removal was fairly quick. With a proper balancing, those 30% would probably come closer to 70-80%, with the remainder being just grinded off on mobs.

That sounds like a player-enacted punishment within the current system. Someone around the PKer decided to punish him and did so. It is no different from some randoms just saying "oh yeah, he's totally guilty so give him 10h of jail time", except it takes way less time for all the parties involved, it dishes out a bigger punishment (XP loss, potential gear loss, and time required to restore either of those things) when the prison system would only provide a time loss as punishment, which, to a "professional" PKer, is not a punishment at all.

Azherae and several other people on different platforms have already stated that even the current harsh penalties wouldn't stop them from killing whoever they want. Spending a few hours grinding, whatever it is you'd need to grind in a prison, would be an even smaller deterrent for them, except now their gear stays the same and their lvl stays the same so they're completely free to just come back to the exact same spot and continue genociding whoever they want.

And if you combine the two systems and/or make the scaling of prison time give those genocirders days-worth of grinding - you'd be pretty much removing them from the game that they paid a sub to play. And that is nowhere near good game design. And even that would not stop them from repeating the same offense in the future.

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And in my understanding 5 minutes (if that) of interaction for hours of "punishment" is way smaller, relatively speaking, than 1-2 minutes of direct player-enacted punishment.

Prison is still a "system-controlled punishment", because it's the system that's keeping you in prison, not players. While in the current system, players are the jury and the executioner. The system only does the basic job of penalizing your death, if players decide to kill you as punishment for your crimes.

If you're so hellbent on introducing even more player activity into the equation - make the PK count removal quest be tied to your "jury". Make the high count PKers work with other people to absolve their sins. This would add more interaction, while not removing players from the game.