I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

Azherae wrote: »

I forgot that I was supposed to provide this for you .

That 16th comment is really nostalgic remember countless such comments for countless people on forum L2's threads back in the day.

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Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?

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You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.

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I'm unaware of them. I will ask a friend about it at some point.

But I was moreso speaking about the fact that if there were rival guilds that were upset that you were sharing the secrets with the whole world while they were trying to get ahead, they might constantly declare war on your Guild.

I'm sure you'd beat them all, but it would probably take up quite a lot of your time, so for that, I salute you.

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Maybe so, but it's good to know that the community will have a fallback if all the elitists from the 2000s turn out to be the top raid players, other than yourself and your guild, that is.

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And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video

You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.

Oh, and on the topic of streams, even in L2, top guilds would either forbid streaming during sieges/boss farms or would at least require 10+ minute delay, because showing your stuff is detrimental. So I could definitely see how something like Noaani's hardcore pvp guild would literally kick you if you were to start up a stream during an important raid.

NiKr wrote: »

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And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video

You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.

You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.

Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?

It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).

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At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.

Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?

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Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.

I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.

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Well, there's some nuance there.

There's 'guides that only Elite players can manage to actually follow' and then there's 'general guides'.

I think it's possible for content to be random/hard enough that the guide can only be followed/properly understood by an elite player, or the average player who does the content so much that they will probably become one.

"Elite" guides for stuff get really long, y'know?

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Yeah, that's always been the part where you and Noaani don't 'meet in the middle'. Noaani is an Elite, talking about Elites, and you're the Everyman, standing up for the average player. You're probably never gonna agree, you're worlds apart in terms of what you're talking about.

I also assume that when you were talking about the guides you would make, you meant for stuff like Tier2 raids, that the average player encounters, and not like, Tier 6 Elitist stuff. I agree that there will definitely be lots of guides for Tier2 raids.

I think the most interesting part will be that the guides have to update as people get better at them and the underlying system starts adding more mechanics.

But you know the Elites aren't gonna be the ones telling people about those until they've reached Tier4 or something...

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Well, just bear in mind that this is the type of player and designer that Steven is.

There will be some in-depth raiding that has multiple stages that will be extremely difficult and... It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content... It doesn't mean that there won't be content available for the larger percentages as well... There should be a tiered level of content that players can constantly strive to accomplish. If there is no ladder of progression and everything is flat and all content can be experienced, then there is no drive to excel. [4] – Steven Sharif

This quote is literally him saying 'Sorry, some content will be Elites Only'.

But obviously it is also saying that there will be a lot of content for the people you are standing in for.

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I think this is the important part that a lot of people seem to forget/disregard. If there's a super complex ow Boss out there and only one elite guild has been running it until they manage to finally beat him, literally all the other guilds will have no clue how they beat him (that is, if the elite guild manages to protect that info through pvp obviously). And now you have an elite guild that's even stronger because they're the only ones who can farm a boss.

I think the discussion so far has been mainly about "there's several great guilds that are all running the bosses in parallel, trying to be the first ones to get it", while that will not be the case in Ashes (at least as of right now). Iirc Noaani said that EQ2 had ow Bosses too, but I thiiink they weren't that difficult? Or it was the other way around and they were so difficult due to being ow that no one beat them? I forget.

But either way, in Ashes, competitive pve will directly influence competitive pvp. And that is my domain, which I'm very happy about

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At the very least it's 0.4% because every server will have at least one guild that will be doing this. I could recount that to fit it better with the alleged 50k per server number, but I doubt this will be the reality of the game.