DPS Meter Megathread

Post by Dizz on 2022-08-19 20:15:43

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-19 20:25:03

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Post by Dizz on 2022-08-19 20:53:34

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Post by Noaani on 2022-08-20 00:36:19

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 01:42:50

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 01:45:27

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Post by Noaani on 2022-08-20 02:23:56

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 03:49:28

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 03:55:45

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Post by Noaani on 2022-08-20 03:57:37

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 04:07:52

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-20 04:08:37

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Eh, those are the only 2 for you :) I bet a ton of people will never care to even look them up if Intrepid don't add them to the game. And even if Intrepid do add them, some people will completely ignore them.

But if you were talking purely about the top 1% of pve players, then maaaybe those are the only 2. I feel like there'll still be some people up there who won't use them.

Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 04:27:16

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Eh, those are the only 2 for you :) I bet a ton of people will never care to even look them up if Intrepid don't add them to the game. And even if Intrepid do add them, some people will completely ignore them.

But if you were talking purely about the top 1% of pve players, then maaaybe those are the only 2. I feel like there'll still be some people up there who won't use them.

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 04:34:17

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 04:35:10

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What number would you like to divide by?

What number of 'downloads per person' is required to make your point real?

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 04:39:04

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 04:40:15

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I suppose if you're wrong once, you must be willing to be wrong 1000 times. NiKr can decide if it is pointless information or not, I guess.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-20 04:40:31

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827
Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 04:44:52

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827
Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Would you prefer the numbers from Monster Hunter World? (PC only probably because of the way it works, you wouldn't use it on Console.)

Unique DLs
160,155

Total DLs
234,390

Here you are.

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 04:49:44

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 04:51:28

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Yes, I understand that your feelings are very important, and so is the reality they create.

I was addressing someone else's reality. There is no further need to defend yours.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 04:52:06

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 04:56:06

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Would you like to use those? I would figure they were unnecessary, doesn't CoD have its own ingame tracker that reports at end of match? I suppose there may be some people out there who want more specific realtime tracking and have their own custom scripts?

I can look on GitHub if you like.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-20 04:59:45

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.
I mean, I didn't say that none were interested in it. Just that a ton of people wouldn't care for it. I could easily see a million players throughout ff14's lifetime redownloading that plugging 18 times. But that 1mil would be out of potential dozens of millions in that same time period. Yes, obviously people will care about their dps and deep combat log, but that still doesn't deny the fact that the majority wouldn't care (I mean, potentially).

That 160k of MHW is roughly half of its players on steam. And MHW is a game build around complex pve afaik, so it'd make sense that more people would be interested in maximizing their output. But ff14 is mainly about their story, with a ton of other sources of entertainment in the game too. And AoC will be about a ton of pvp, artisan stuff and definitely some pve too, but if a few sources of pve will be beatable by just <10% (allegedly), I'd assume that around 20 maaaybe 30% would be at all interested in even trying. At which point probably the majority of them would need a tracker (though this still depends on the boss design).

In other words, yes, obviously there'll be people who only have 2 options, just like Noaani, but I highly doubt they'd be the majority. But at that point we're just back to the "do Intrepid want FF14's situation" question. Cause as you pointed out, even with ff14's attitude towards meters/addons, that pluggin still has 18kk downloads, even if they might've come from just a mil or two of people.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 05:04:59

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 05:08:07

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.
I mean, I didn't say that none were interested in it. Just that a ton of people wouldn't care for it. I could easily see a million players throughout ff14's lifetime redownloading that plugging 18 times. But that 1mil would be out of potential dozens of millions in that same time period. Yes, obviously people will care about their dps and deep combat log, but that still doesn't deny the fact that the majority wouldn't care (I mean, potentially).

That 160k of MHW is roughly half of its players on steam. And MHW is a game build around complex pve afaik, so it'd make sense that more people would be interested in maximizing their output. But ff14 is mainly about their story, with a ton of other sources of entertainment in the game too. And AoC will be about a ton of pvp, artisan stuff and definitely some pve too, but if a few sources of pve will be beatable by just <10% (allegedly), I'd assume that around 20 maaaybe 30% would be at all interested in even trying. At which point probably the majority of them would need a tracker (though this still depends on the boss design).

In other words, yes, obviously there'll be people who only have 2 options, just like Noaani, but I highly doubt they'd be the majority. But at that point we're just back to the "do Intrepid want FF14's situation" question. Cause as you pointed out, even with ff14's attitude towards meters/addons, that pluggin still has 18kk downloads, even if they might've come from just a mil or two of people.

To clarify why this is something that I would care about relative to Ashes, then.

Ashes is supposed to be competitive. It has the potential to be quite acutely so, ESPECIALLY for builds.

The point being made is simple. If 2-5% of the total playerbase is using trackers, and 10% of the playerbase is what we would call 'competitively viable', that's between 1/5th and one half of the 'competitive' playerbase that have a speed-of-development advantage over the remaining.

What happens when the 'average' player knows that a competitive opponent has an advantage of this type? I can see that you would be fine 'just losing repeatedly because your opponents use their trackers and you prefer to do it the hard way', but we are not talking about you. We're talking about all the people who 'don't have time or the will to keep being at a disadvantage, but would still like to compete'.

You consider this connected to PvE, but MOBAs have parsers. Fighting games sometimes have parsers. Some even have 'parsers' built into the game by the developers because they know players will do related things.

I think I get what you and Mag are saying, that you don't care enough about the higher levels of competition to care if they exist or not, and believe that others don't either. That's fine, I think I just 'prefer that Ashes isn't ruled by those who are willing to have them' on average, and I expect that those who are not willing to have them, but are also not willing to just keep losing, have hard decisions to make.

Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 05:10:10

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I have no intention of using a tracker in Ashes. I am internally debating whether I expect to be competitive enough to even need a parser. Please do not project your perceptions on me as a defense mechanism against the logic being presented, because you are once again, defeating your own goal here.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 05:11:44

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-20 05:14:13

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You are the same person that doubted that FF14 even had 24 million unique users back when we were arguing about Action Combat vs Tab.

Which of these realities should I be assuming you are in? Or will it just change by your mood at the time?

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-08-20 05:15:07

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