PVP in Ashes Opt in System to the planned Flagging

Post by Songcaller on 2022-08-25 17:04:45

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-25 19:10:09

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The suggestion might have led to something like this, where the healer can heal either themselves or others more easily without being flagged, particularly with specific spells and situations.

There are certain 'ground area healing' abilities that we also don't know 'how they will work relative to flagging', but those may be changed, as they were only a part of Alpha-1 and Intrepid has confirmed that anything we saw before, ability wise, might also be changed.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-25 19:35:04

There are certain 'ground area healing' abilities that we also don't know 'how they will work relative to flagging', but those may be changed, as they were only a part of Alpha-1 and Intrepid has confirmed that anything we saw before, ability wise, might also be changed.
I'd assume that one would fall under the "switch"'s control, that's talked about in the 18th reference here
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging

Post by Azherae on 2022-08-25 19:45:58

There are certain 'ground area healing' abilities that we also don't know 'how they will work relative to flagging', but those may be changed, as they were only a part of Alpha-1 and Intrepid has confirmed that anything we saw before, ability wise, might also be changed.
I'd assume that one would fall under the "switch"'s control, that's talked about in the 18th reference here
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging

Thank you. Though technically I referred to 'what happens if Hallowed Ground is started on a nonflagged player and you have the switch off and then that player flags?'

The implication IS definitely that 'because the switch was on, them flagging up and being healed by standing in it will flag you, the healer'.

I'm just not willing to assume it because of various scenarios I can think of. It's probably not relevant to this discussion anyway.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-25 19:52:35

Thank you. Though technically I referred to 'what happens if Hallowed Ground is started on a nonflagged player and you have the switch off and then that player flags?'

The implication IS definitely that 'because the switch was on, them flagging up and being healed by standing in it will flag you, the healer'.
The explicit statement of "completion of skill" makes me think that they could have a fail state imbedded in the coding, where if the first flag check didn't match up with the final one - the skill effect would be flipped.

Post by Azherae on 2022-08-25 19:54:48

Thank you. Though technically I referred to 'what happens if Hallowed Ground is started on a nonflagged player and you have the switch off and then that player flags?'

The implication IS definitely that 'because the switch was on, them flagging up and being healed by standing in it will flag you, the healer'.
The explicit statement of "completion of skill" makes me think that they could have a fail state imbedded in the coding, where if the first flag check didn't match up with the final one - the skill effect would be flipped.

Retroactively?

Anyways, like I said, it doesn't matter. If Hallowed Ground is the same, I have multiple tests to run myself on its flagging and corruption effects in Alpha-2. Until then, consider it irrelevant. I'm sure if somehow my plans for use of it are correct, it will be intentional design anyway.

Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-25 20:04:15

Retroactively?
This is a very big assumption on my part and will obviously has to be tested, but if they go down the "animation based cd", then it'd seem logical to have a check of validity of effect at the end of the animation. And the mention of "completion of skill" makes me think that this is the case. So if you started a cast and it had a valid check (be it for flag or maybe for visibility), but then at the end the check was invalid - you got yourself a "failed" effect.

L2 worked like this. You couldn't cast abilities if your didn't have a visual on someone, but if you had the visual and then during the cast you lost it - the ability effect would not go through.
Anyways, like I said, it doesn't matter. If Hallowed Ground is the same, I have multiple tests to run myself on its flagging and corruption effects in Alpha-2. Until then, consider it irrelevant. I'm sure if somehow my plans for use of it are correct, it will be intentional design anyway.
I do think this matters, cause the same thing could be applied to aoe attack insteractions with the same switch and to even flagging itself. What if I do a forced attack on someone, but they move behind a tree during the cast? Do I get flagged because of my intention or do I not get flagged because the ability didn't attack (that is if the system I described is implemented).

But yes, it's all gonna be in the testing. I'll personally be rooting and giving feedback for the system to be like I'm used to, just because I see merit in it from my own experience and because I hate gcd with an absolute passion and it seems to me that animation-based cd allows you to not have a gcd cause it servers the same function.

Post by Azherae on 2022-08-25 20:10:17

Retroactively?
This is a very big assumption on my part and will obviously has to be tested, but if they go down the "animation based cd", then it'd seem logical to have a check of validity of effect at the end of the animation. And the mention of "completion of skill" makes me think that this is the case. So if you started a cast and it had a valid check (be it for flag or maybe for visibility), but then at the end the check was invalid - you got yourself a "failed" effect.

L2 worked like this. You couldn't cast abilities if your didn't have a visual on someone, but if you had the visual and then during the cast you lost it - the ability effect would not go through.
Anyways, like I said, it doesn't matter. If Hallowed Ground is the same, I have multiple tests to run myself on its flagging and corruption effects in Alpha-2. Until then, consider it irrelevant. I'm sure if somehow my plans for use of it are correct, it will be intentional design anyway.
I do think this matters, cause the same thing could be applied to aoe attack insteractions with the same switch and to even flagging itself. What if I do a forced attack on someone, but they move behind a tree during the cast? Do I get flagged because of my intention or do I not get flagged because the ability didn't attack (that is if the system I described is implemented).

But yes, it's all gonna be in the testing. I'll personally be rooting and giving feedback for the system to be like I'm used to, just because I see merit in it from my own experience and because I hate gcd with an absolute passion and it seems to me that animation-based cd allows you to not have a gcd cause it servers the same function.

For clarity, (last response because I really don't want to go into the weeds on this one), Hallowed Ground is a ground template that Heals allies over time and Damages enemies over time.

It must 'tick' to decide which of those things it will do based on both position of player and 'intent of caster'.

If I cast Hallowed Ground on a Green player and my Green party member and my Green party member then flags up by attacking the other green Player while they are both standing in my Hallowed Ground, the question is 'what happens then?'

The extension of that, relative to the actual topic, is 'at what point, if any, do I get flagged while this is going on?'

Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-25 20:22:24

It must 'tick' to decide which of those things it will do based on both position of player and 'intent of caster'.

If I cast Hallowed Ground on a Green player and my Green party member and my Green party member then flags up by attacking the other green Player while they are both standing in my Hallowed Ground, the question is 'what happens then?'

The extension of that, relative to the actual topic, is 'at what point, if any, do I get flagged while this is going on?'
I would assume, each tick is the "completion of cast". So the skill would do a check comparison against your switch option. If you disabled aoe flagging - you won't flag if any player in your h/dot aoe changes state.

That seems logical to me and I see no gameplay issue with that. If your mate flagged in a healing aoe, while knowing that you have your aoe flagging disabled - that's on him (that is, if you or PL explicitly said not to flag). I've seen quite a few raids fail because some dumbass flagged up when he shouldn't have. This system would prevent that (that is, he'll just die while no one else gets involved).

Same for pvp flagging, I've seen a ton of "aoe flag baiting" in L2 and it was often very frustrating. This kind of check system would prevent that.

If you see a flaw in this kind of system, definitely point it out, cause I might be missing smth due to my bias.

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Post by Azherae on 2022-08-26 17:03:09

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I don't understand the implication here, so just in case.

I'm not worried about being flagged, I'm thinking about 'how to use Hallowed Ground most effectively against unsuspecting gatherers through teamwork with my Fighters'.

My wish is that I DO get flagged immediately because it will cause the Hallowed Ground to immediately start doing damage to the target instead of healing them or simply not affecting them.

I was just also trying to point out to OP that the interactions that could happen there based on their suggestion might be worse if the effect applies the other way. Should I 'be allowed to stay noncombatant for a few seconds when my Fighter partner gets attacked even though I heal them?'

Would dropping Hallowed Ground and then nothing else, in the system proposed, result in my Fighter being healed while I remained unflagged? If not, then would the 'exception' be applied to 'healing that works some ways' and not 'healing that works other ways'?

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