Dungeon Boss Grinding - PvE talk

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It's just a difference of standards. Noaani has super high ones when it comes to the quantity of high quality content. Most people either don't care or at least just have much lower standards for the quantity. WoW and FF14 being the biggest examples of that.

This gives me hope that general masses of gamers might like the game still, but the main issue that Noaani seems to have with previous statements by Steven is that Intrepid's trying to attract top lvl pvers while it doesn't seem to provide the type and quantity of the content that would achieve that goal.

We obviously haven't seen much of that kind of content (none tbh), but considering Steven's inspirations for Ashes, the chances of that content matching Noaani's (and people like him) standards are quite low.

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If I'm understanding him correctly - yeah, pretty much. I'm sure he'll do other content too, but instanced pve content would be the main attraction, and it can only be considered content if it's of top quality and in abundance.

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The 15 bosses in question were the peak pve content that only the top 1% would be able to even attempt. There'd be a ton of weaker bosses in the game.

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High/top tier gear will most likely be quite rare. And that's kind of the point. Not everyone is a winner. Especially not the casual players who play 1h a day. There'll still be content for those players, but it won't be the peak difficulty content which provides you with that top tier gear.

There's still a chance that those casuals will have hardcore friends who might share some good gear with them or they might buy it from other players, though I dunno how many casuals would know how to make that much money.

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How many of those 8k people will be raiding at all? How many of the ones who will be raiding will be doing so daily? Of those who do so daily, how many can contest the farm through pvp?

I'd assume that the final number after all of those barriers is somewhat small (relatively speaking that is). There's also the question of the time of day when those raiders will be online too.

In other words, I do believe that the game won't need as many bosses as it might seem. Obviously Noaani disagrees with that, but we'll have to see what the masses say in the later days of alpha2 when Intrepid might populate some part of the alpha2 region in a way that the release might be populated.

@Noaani when I said that I think you'd want to sit in a dungeon most of the time I meant that only instanced content will be of the best quality and you want that kind of content to fill up your gametime. And that doesn't mean "sit in the same one for hours", but instead "have several such instances that I can farm a few of them every day". Was that assumption wrong?

And as for the other response, I feel like you're just calling Elite mobs Bosses. I feel like we literally want the same exact thing, except you call the mobs I want Bosses.

If a "Boss" is no different from a mob (in both animation and model) then how is it not just a thick mob? To me, an open world dungeon means the hardest mobs in the game at the lvl of the dungeon. They have the most hp, the most attack and good variance of attacks. And that's in every single room with growing difficulty the lower you go into the dungeon. Unless I completely misunderstood your second response - you seem to want the same thing.

This is why I said that I have a high standard for what I'd want to see. I want plain dungeon mobs to be as difficult as overworld low difficulty boss. With that difficulty growing throughout the dungeon.

So I feel like this is an issue of phrasing, rather than purely a conceptual preferences.

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Yep, I'd expect way more mechanical difficulty from proper dungeon mobs.

And you say again that this would just be filler and not real content. So was I right in assuming that you'd rather just farm hardcore top lvl instances as your main means of spending gametime? Cause you said that we don't get what instances are, but you reinforce the idea that only instances can provide real content and then say that you want real content in the game.

And to me that sounds like you want to mainly farm several instanced fights every day. I'm assuming that the 14-20h of EQ2 gameplay was spent in such instances, because in EQ2 that was considered real content. You could obviously spend time doing other stuff if you had enough free time to play the game, but the core guild gameplay revolved around raiding instances. Is that a correct assumption?

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Ok, now I understand your position better. We just have different names for the mobs. To me that'd be mob, elite mob, boss. So when I say that dungeons should have top tier mobs, I mean that pretty much every room in the dungeon has an Elite (mb even two) who has plain mobs for adds, while those mobs themselves are difficult too (just as you described). And then there'd be several bosses in a few deep rooms of the dungeon. And THEN in the last room of the dungeon you'd have an epic boss who gives out legendary items, has a respawn timer of over a week and is the hardest content in the game.

Maybe not all dungeons have epic bosses, though I'd personally prefer each of them to have one.

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Yep, it'd be the big boi of the group with his own abilities.

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I'm not necessarily taking that naming scheme from any particular game, just saying what I'd call that kind of separation of mob power. On some L2 servers that I played there were x10 and x50 "elite" mobs that were literally the same as plain ones, but had increased stats (namely x10 and x50 increase). And open world bosses would have a unique name and unique abilities. But due to both of those being easy on their own, I'd want to see elite mobs that combine both of those features. They're named, they have huge stats and unique abilities.

Then there's a step above that with real bosses, good environmental hazards and some other mechanics. And the final increase in difficulty is a world instanced epic boss that's pretty much the pinnacle of pve content in the game. All kinds of mechanics, all kinds of abilities, all kinds of hazards.

Though again, that is just what I'd prefer to have in the game. The only game that I've played that had a system close to that might be Elden Ring? There's plain mobs that are somewhat difficult (some presenting that difficulty through numbers and some through movesets and stats). There's fat mobs with big damages. There's named bosses with several mechanics, that are also copied a few times across the game. And then there's the huge big name story-important dudes who have insane mechanics and super high difficulty.

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At this point we'd just need to see how low and how high in difficulty design Intrepid want to go. Maybe base pop mobs have 1 ability. Thiccq mobs have 2-3. Named mobs have 2-3 abilities and a few special mechanics. Plain bosses have 5 abilities, several mechanics and an envi hazard (with a range of differences between all of those to create different difficulties within the Boss type creatures). And top lvl epic bosses have up to 10 abilities with rng uses, several stages with several mechanics each (plain bosses could have two or three stage too maybe) and a few envi hazards.

Or Intrepid could just go with a mob, fat mob, boss with a few abilities, big fat boss with a bit more abilities and a hazard.

Either way, we're just discussing naming schemes at this point and general design variances rather than anything really concrete.