PVE Loving Game Design Experts are Sprouting in Abundance

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Is this genuinely this weird/difficult to grasp?

That someone might decide to stay and help test or give feedback for a game they don't want to play?

Or is this moreso the concept that you don't think the game needs their feedback/presence?

Today's stream explicitly spelled out for me, for example, that I won't actually play this game past the initial sub that the Alpha One Tier covers. I had a line, Steven answered a question on stream that said outright "no we're crossing your line", and I mentally went 'oh ok that sucks, well, I should still do the testing'.

But one could genuinely argue that 'people who don't want to play the game shouldn't be giving feedback that might change it'. Is that what this is?

Azherae wrote: »

Today's stream explicitly spelled out for me, for example, that I won't actually play this game past the initial sub that the Alpha One Tier covers. I had a line, Steven answered a question on stream that said outright "no we're crossing your line", and I mentally went 'oh ok that sucks, well, I should still do the testing'.

Rip

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"Open Seas are more rewarding."

Azherae wrote: »

"Open Seas are more rewarding."

W/o concrete info to me that still sounds like a weak justification and hype-building. But no matter what it is, it definitely does point in a direction that could be interpreted in not the best of ways.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

"Open Seas are more rewarding."

W/o concrete info to me that still sounds like a weak justification and hype-building. But no matter what it is, it definitely does point in a direction that could be interpreted in not the best of ways.

Well, that would be another good reason to stick around and test, but just from my own entirely speculative design 'sense', the REST of what Steven said on stream backs it up.

@BaSkA13 has been the most right of us all along, imo.

Corruption is going to be very harsh, by DESIGN, and Open Seas are 'to make up for it', but also 'more rewarding'.

Not the style of game I play, and I can't even have a different reaction than Dygz does so I once again wonder about it.

"And that's OK."

I like lots of OTHER things, lots of OTHER concepts that are part of Ashes. In my (arrogant?) mind, I could test those and still give good feedback on those. I don't expect 'Oh I don't play games with this risk/reward structure' to taint my feedback on 'Frame cancels for Healing spells while walking backward swinging a Mace'.

So why wouldn't I test?

I'd get tired of hearing 'why are you even here?' too. I might even respond to try to clarify a thing if someone seemed to misunderstand but not purposely misunderstand.

But if their real feeling is either:
"You don't mean that, you just want attention." or
"GTFO then, the game doesn't need anything from you."

Then yeah, no point in engaging with that.

Azherae wrote: »

I'd get tired of hearing 'why are you even here?' too. I might even respond to try to clarify a thing if someone seemed to misunderstand but not purposely misunderstand.

But if their real feeling is either:
"You don't mean that, you just want attention." or
"GTFO then, the game doesn't need anything from you."

Then yeah, no point in engaging with that.

I feel like people just use Dygz as a pariah, purely because he's an avid forum poster and has a unique personality that stands out. It's way easier to just point at Dygz and yell all the anti-pve-carebear stuff than to try and understand his pov and then use that understanding to better explain the game's design to any potential newcomers that have a differing outlook on the game's design.

And I'd imagine that in time you'd get similar treatment, because you also stand out and have already garnered a few senseless "haters" here and there.

It's all really quite dumb. Though that's pretty much me being both a kettle and the pot, cause I'm definitely not much better than the rest when it comes to welcoming newcomers to the forums.

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Yeah, I know it has to be that way, which is why I wasn't really banking on anything else based on the explanations that ArcheAge players gave.

And just like Dygz, I would never think to myself 'Oh ArcheAge 2 is out, I wanna play'.

The only thing 'bothering' me (it really isn't), is that this was a change (forum seems to still be up in arms about whether it is or not, as of a few days ago) and I wanted to play 'The Ashes that was presented before this change'.

I wouldn't have pledged in if I thought this was gonna be ArcheAge 1.5, Nodes or not. So, to my original point... I'm here. I have 5-6 people with me that are very coordinated. We can manage a LOT of testing that less coordinated groups can't do. We're not going to go ask for refunds 'Oh because you wanted to make a Pirate MMO'.

Is that input/testing so 'worthless' that the reaction has to be 'why are you still here lol'?

Because I mean, it really might be, depending on how one views the goals of feedback for a game in development.

Azherae wrote: »

Is that input/testing so 'worthless' that the reaction has to be 'why are you still here lol'?

Because I mean, it really might be, depending on how one views the goals of feedback for a game in development.

The only ones who can tell you how important your feedback is are Intrepid. Everyone else can kindly go fuck themselves, cause I'm sure that we, at best, have a few pro testers here (if any at all) and outside of them ain't nobody got the rights to put down someone's feedback's worth.

Especially when that feedback comes from people with different backgrounds and gameplay interests. While the target audience might've shifted with that open seas change, there's still several features that can be (and I'd even say should be) tested by those who no longer fit the TA.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Is that input/testing so 'worthless' that the reaction has to be 'why are you still here lol'?

Because I mean, it really might be, depending on how one views the goals of feedback for a game in development.

The only ones who can tell you how important your feedback is are Intrepid. Everyone else can kindly go fuck themselves, cause I'm sure that we, at best, have a few pro testers here (if any at all) and outside of them ain't nobody got the rights to put down someone's feedback's worth.

Especially when that feedback comes from people with different backgrounds and gameplay interests. While the target audience might've shifted with that open seas change, there's still several features that can be (and I'd even say should be) tested by those who no longer fit the TA.

Well yeah but in that sense I'm not really asking about THAT, sorry for the ... derail?

I kinda want to know, IF the people who have this reaction even CAN be reasoned with, what form should that take? What is it on their minds that makes them so weirded out by 'I don't really want to play this game but I'll help test features' to the point where they need to go around telling OTHER people 'that person doesn't mean that'?

I'm aware that there's minimal chance that my assumptive model of why they do this is right, but I kinda need a new one.

Azherae wrote: »

I kinda want to know, IF the people who have this reaction even CAN be reasoned with, what form should that take? What is it on their minds that makes them so weirded out by 'I don't really want to play this game but I'll help test features' to the point where they need to go around telling OTHER people 'that person doesn't mean that'?

I'm aware that there's minimal chance that my assumptive model of why they do this is right, but I kinda need a new one.

As much as I want to keep believing in people, it's really hard to do. And so far I've seen no indications that those who say those things can change. I've tried helping bring the opposites povs to a closer point (to varying success), but I quite often feel like I'm overstepping with my assumptions of what one side might've meant.

But no amount of help would really change the underlying problem of "people just don't have the empathy nor the understanding to see someone else's pov".

I think it just comes down to the "internet posters rule" (not official name), where all the regulars are insane in their own little way (sometimes not even little).

Like, Dygz could easily ignore everyone who keeps pinging him with dumb comments - but he doesn't. And in a way it creates the classic troll loop. Now it's obviously not Dygz' fault for having differing views on games, nor is it his fault that other people have a problem with his views.

But I do believe that troll starvation works in the long run. At least it's been working just fine for me so far.

P.S. ayo top10 spammer