The Implications of the Removal of Crossbows/Potion Launchers

You went from seemingly good points to the old boring "steven's an mlmer and ashes is bordering on scam", with a ton of different points in-between.

I don't care about 2 niche weapons (with potion launchers still present in the game on ships), but I do care about base mechanics of the game and core designs. Weapons can always be added later on, but changing core mechanics would be much harder.

I'd rather get the game a bit sooner w/o a third form of a bow and a glorified carriable cannon, than wait for even longer than we'll already have to wait. When Intrepid promised a super cool mmorpg and totally "not like other girls", I expected a game with mechanics and designs that are on the rarer side in current mmos - not 3 types of bows and a ship cannon in my hands.

We have not received permission from Judeth to share the quoted post.

For 2 removed weapons they increased the map and restructured node volume to provide better content for the players. For 2 removed weapons they made seas and node ruins ffa pvp zones. For 2 removed weapons they added/made a ton of other shit that I forget right now.

So I disagree with you drawing a line from one point of not-yet-existing content removal, because they've made a ton of other stuff that is still there to provide content. Oh, also, weren't tulnar also a stretch goal? And we've already gotten their progress on that.

NiKr wrote: »

We have not received permission from Judeth to share the quoted post.

For 2 removed weapons they increased the map and restructured node volume to provide better content for the players. For 2 removed weapons they made seas and node ruins ffa pvp zones. For 2 removed weapons they added/made a ton of other shit that I forget right now.

So I disagree with you drawing a line from one point of not-yet-existing content removal, because they've made a ton of other stuff that is still there to provide content. Oh, also, weren't tulnar also a stretch goal? And we've already gotten their progress on that.

I think this is a bs take.

The teams that would do this wouldn't even be tangentially related.

Also we haven't ACTUALLY gotten any progress on Tulnar.

We got sketches and more explanations of how it supposedly will work whenever it does.

I don't think we have any explicit reason to expect Tulnar to be more 'solid' than Crossbows or Freehold Cosmetics.

@Judeth - If my contributions to this thread are 'inconsistent' or unhelpful let me know, I'm just doing a 'due diligence' for some people at this point, which means I may not always be expressing my own perceptions.

Azherae wrote: »

I think this is a bs take.

The teams that would do this wouldn't even be tangentially related.

Also we haven't ACTUALLY gotten any progress on Tulnar.

We got sketches and more explanations of how it supposedly will work whenever it does.

I don't think we have any explicit reason to expect Tulnar to be more 'solid' than Crossbows or Freehold Cosmetics.

Yes, those are all true, but what do we know for sure about the development? Do animators just sit on their ass while the environment team is working? What about 3d modelers? What about combat designers/coders? And what about all of them working at the same time and having planned out progress that, in theory, should roughly match each other's pace so that the game could be released with all of their work, rather than full animations on everything but unfinished environments (or the other way around).

Also, have we seen any indication that there'll be mobs with crossbows or launchers? Cause if yes, then Intrepid is obviously bullshiting us because, I'd imagine, the exact same teams would be working on those mobs that would've been working on player side of those weapons.

But if we haven't seen those, then I'd assume Intrepid are trying to better plan out their progress. Cause dear fucking god do they need a good plan to finish this game "in time". We've also heard that quite a lot devs wear several hats, so there's a chance that some or all animators/modelers are also doing something else on the side, so adding two whole weapon types would delay that other work as well.

I definitely agree with the freehold cosmetics part though, cause it's getting quite a bit silly at this point that we got 0 fucking clue what cosmetic goes on what building. And I'd find it quite hilarious (even if potentially legally dangerous) if at some point in the future Intrepid will have to reimburse everyone who bought building cosmetics but then learned that they literally can't use them cause those buildings are somehow limited gameplay-wise, or if the cosmetic just doesn't fit/work/apply to the building that the majority of people thought it would.

We have not received permission from Galvyr to share the quoted post.

At 33:54 here they laugh at crossbows being accidentally included on the screenshot and then remove them, which to me seems like a good indicator that even in 2018 they already at least thought of not including those in the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nff_kdiKdDU

Also, I've tried looking for concrete info, but I can't find any indication of particularly crossbows or launchers being promised in the kickstarter. And wiki seems to have moved on from them and only points towards those weapons just mentioned in the context of APOC.

Do you have a link that directly shows Intrepid promising these 2 particular weapons for kickstarter backers?

We have not received permission from Sathrago to share the quoted post.

But I don't think we have any idea what kind of world Sanctus was. Did it have proper environment to support rapid progress? Did it have chemical materials to produce different things that we could make on earth? Also, a quick google says that first crossbows appeared ~400BC and first human civilizations was somewhere around 4-3kBC, so even if we completely disregard the thousands of years of human experimentation with weapon building (and we know that humans love killing each other and others), it's still several thousands of years before we came up with the crossbow. And it was a total requirement for us because we were pushed to progress by our environment and other people.

Verran people lived for whoever knows how long with super high magic that probably completely stopped any real mechanical progress, cause why wouldn't you need it when you have magic. Then they get thrown into an unknown world w/o that magic and w/ 0 knowledge of how to even begin to develop mechanical tools.

And if they started from that kind of 0, I could definitely see how those dumb magical people could take several thousands of years to figure out only the most basic of tools.

All that to say - the lore could still pull off them not knowing shit about mechanical contraptions. We just don't know any of that lore deep enough to know the reasoning behind the things that we do know.

We have not received permission from Galvyr to share the quoted post.

I wonder if we're still getting Ballista, and it's just the player character animations.

I have no perspective on this, since, to me, Crossbow is among the easiest things to animate, even if you were to do the entire 'reloading properly between each shot' animation.

So regardless of whether or not I care about the weapon itself being cut, I am quite surprised by the reasoning given.