Will it pay to harvest the harvesters?

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Again, if Intrepid design their caravans to be one of the main means of proper transportation of goods - you can just pirate that shit on the seas.

Steven's nebulous "seas are like so important and valuable, like omg, they have to be forced flagged" tells me nothing. Does the value come from mobs? Locations? Bosses? Fishing? Literally anything else that would have no impact on pillaging?

Yet again, most potential answers to that imply a "prevent that group of people from participating in that content".

NiKr wrote: »

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Again, if Intrepid design their caravans to be one of the main means of proper transportation of goods - you can just pirate that shit on the seas.

Steven's nebulous "seas are like so important and valuable, like omg, they have to be forced flagged" tells me nothing. Does the value come from mobs? Locations? Bosses? Fishing? Literally anything else that would have no impact on pillaging?

Yet again, most potential answers to that imply a "prevent that group of people from participating in that content".

Yes but this is by definition a terrible design pillar, not because it automatically fails, but because it has no reason to be this way.

Even you, a great L2 fan, I am reasonably certain would be happier with at least five other implementations. There's just never a good reason to make a large part of your game 'prevent others from participating in X content' when you don't have to for some related Economy design reason.

That's what myself and Arya (I think) are concerned about here. Coming from EVE and from 'studying MMO economy design since I was young', there's no clear econ->gameplay enjoyment link here. "Guild War opponents don't drop loot" is definitionally the opposite of this, disabling the only one that existed.

I don't think the Open Seas have any equivalent of Caravanserai, and if they do, that's the basis of a massive number of other problems.

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We have no context for how sea looting will work, especially for the super rare items. What if they're all huge and require a sea caravan to move?

Also, we don't know how exactly looting will even work. What are the chances to drop any given droppable item in your inventory? What about its volume/quantity? What will people do to minimize any chances of dropping the rare stuff?

I get what you're saying and there's still a chance that this design changes somehow (just as caravan death penalties decay your gear for some fucking reason), but I would expect that the direct item looting would be a caravan/mule thing rather than general owpvp.

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I can't agree that 'band-aids always fight each other'.

I believe this because at no point do I feel like any poster on this forum trying to engage on a topic has been in a position where they 'didn't have an expectation' of what would happen with a system when they make their complaints.

What I mean is, everyone has a clear expectation of how something would work, and what 'band-aids' would be needed to make it work.

While I normally don't like to fault Intrepid, it's moreso that analytically, their design appears inconsistent, and we're all just sitting around waiting for it to solidify in one of the sane directions without having all the internal data or discussions they have.

Of course it could just be that they don't agree internally either and Steven doesn't know how to build the system himself, but even that should still result in something.

Basically I think you can choose the 'correct synergy of band-aids' and it work. And that's with my personal belief that the current Corruption system is flawed. I don't think it's valid to say 'the band-aids are going to ruin it' or that 'it just won't work'.

Azherae wrote: »

Yes but this is by definition a terrible design pillar, not because it automatically fails, but because it has no reason to be this way.

Even you, a great L2 fan, I am reasonably certain would be happier with at least five other implementations. There's just never a good reason to make a large part of your game 'prevent others from participating in X content' when you don't have to for some related Economy design reason.

My L2 bias is just waaaay too strong on this topic. The pvp for that content was usually the fun part of the content, which is why my brain got wired to prefer it that way.

That "overcome other players to get the thing" is what was attractive to me. And I do realize that the majority of people would prefer a much fairer and more content-directed system rather than a "pvp if you want to even try this content". And as Dygz would probably say, "if Ashes had a lead designer, this might not have been an issue"

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First of all 'lol'.

Secondly, I agree from the perspective that based on what we see right now, it looks like the systems don't match the game. Hopefully when the Economy and System Designers are hired and can have a serious sit-down about it all, they'll fix that either by fixing the PvP systems or changing the other aspects of the game.

Intrepid is in a good place for that. Back when I was running the TCG Community I was in charge of, it was super helpful to me to have people to provide different perspectives of that type, since it really lets you cut down on the 'randomized' feedback of the uninvested.

We're already there as a community, partially because the active community slightly shrank or went back to lurking, but the reason doesn't matter.

If Corruption fails PvP incentives from the worldbuild, NiKr will point it out. If it fails because it has too many 'carebear loopholes', you will, and if it breaks the Economy then I will.

So basically I request that you give the bandaids a chance (but definitely keep complaining, particularly with your changed perspective, since you're the one most suited to telling them when they're not even helping Verra itself).

We have not received permission from Arya_Yeshe to share the quoted post.

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Yeah see, the issue is that if you do this too early into a thread, people take you too seriously, lol.

But I appreciate the humor in it, truly.

"Quick you guys, log in on your non-guild Alts so we can actually kill these guys, they got the Kraken before we could get organized! Hurry up they're FLEEING!"

And then all the drama of actually getting the Guildless Pirate Alts onto pursuit ships somehow...

This is probably going to be funny no matter how it works actually.