What can we learn from the phenomenon of Classic WoW Hardcore?

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Play hardcore music and you're flush

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And your post illustrates exactly why people here have said that there's nothing to learn from wow hardcore for Ashes.

Intrepid is already planning to do the exact thing your wife liked. They will already have a game that's "just like in the old days". That's been the whole plan from the very start. Arya could've just said "Intrepid wants to do a good thing. I want them to do that good thing" in the OP and people would've agreed way more than with this post.

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As someone who's put multiple thousand hours into all kinds of idlers, but still wants difficulty in his games - I dare claim that correlation does not equal causation in this case

NiKr wrote: »

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As someone who's put multiple thousand hours into all kinds of idlers, but still wants difficulty in his games - I dare claim that correlation does not equal causation in this case

But have you downloaded State of Survival from the link in the video to receive your 777 draws and the Legendary Hero Lucky?

Azherae wrote: »

But have you downloaded State of Survival from the link in the video to receive your 777 draws and the Legendary Hero Lucky?

Nope, but I did cave in to play Raid Shadow Legends after months of yt ads wasn't my type of game. Autoplay is not quite idle gaming imo (even if it is effectively the same thing), so I kinda differentiate those.

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Well then now I have a potentially useful question.

tl;dr Meaningful is a function of skill and in a competitive game setting the 'meaningful' slider to something that doesn't punish the average player results in no change long term.

The problem with MMOs is that generally their 'difficulty' is a weird function. You have to make it so that players don't have to be 100% at all times even in their combat, but gamers have a huge skill range. But then if the dying isn't the interesting part, what do you do?

I'll use MOBA anecdote because it's easy, I'm not really saying that MOBAs specifically are related to your topic, it's just that I can't think of a 'single player' game that feels hard without self imposed challenge, so:

A good Carry in Predecessor in a short game usually kills 10 opponents and dies maybe 5 times depending on how much escape their kit has.

An average one kills about 6 opponents and dies maybe 5 times.

A poor one kills 3 people and dies 15 times, and a genius one might kill 12 people and die only once. That genius one is never even thinking they're in danger. There's no adrenaline rush for them, it's just 'another day at the office'.

If you make an MMO where the GENERAL open world experience is dangerous to the AVERAGE player you haven't changed anything about the experiences of the people who tend to talk about the game. To those people (who are usually the 'winners' on a server in a competitive game) everything is still easy, and because things are easy to them, for their average opponents, every encounter with them is 'extra hard'.

Azherae wrote: »

If you make an MMO where the GENERAL open world experience is dangerous to the AVERAGE player you haven't changed anything about the experiences of the people who tend to talk about the game. To those people (who are usually the 'winners' on a server in a competitive game) everything is still easy, and because things are easy to them, for their average opponents, every encounter with them is 'extra hard'.

All the 100++ pages of dps meter discussion is proof of this. That whole thread pretty much comes down to "no, you don't need meters because content can be difficult w/o them" vs "no, you need meters because content literally can't be difficult w/o them". And the difference in opinion comes from the skill lvl of the participants of that discussion.