Throne and Liberty systems similar to AoC & Their twist on them

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Ah, I realized that the information source isn't clear.

The thing I'm taking my data from isn't really related, it's supposedly a leak of the localization file.

Not 'a data file that someone translated' as far as I understand it.

Should I have this? No. Obviously technically no one should, and you're free to believe that more will change, I also believe this. So I mostly discussed the parts that I understood to be confirmations of things we already knew or that I had other valid reasons to believe.

The equivalent of a tabloid news article that goes with a photo.

I don't believe any of them and am sure that there'll be a ton of p2w, including rmt. I just won't really care about that much and gonna try the game if amazon are fucking smart enough not to put me in a god damn russian region.

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Yeah, it's a useful-ish video, but if y'all care, I actually have more information and clarity.

I will not say 'from where', and technically it's better for everyone if you all just assume and act like I'm blowing smoke and speculating and don't 'believe' a word I say, but:

Theoretically...

If a game studio were to take the BDO model of 'you can buy something on the Cash Shop and then sell it to other players' to the logical 'correct' extreme, it would look a lot like this:

1. All players start the game together, any player can spend RL money to get ' Latinum ' (we're pretending this is a Star Trek game... yeah)
2. Latinum is useless except for three things, the first - buying healing items on the store instead of waiting for other players to make them, at unreasonably high costs (takes advantage of all the whales that feel like they MUST get ahead)
3. The second - Latinum can also be used to buy things directly on the Marketplace once other players start making stuff, which happens, meaning that other players have Latinum and can also buy healing items and EXP refresher scrolls on the store.
4. The third - Latinum can be used to buy sorta-cosmetic morphs and costumes (the BDO core)
5. Latinum also goes into regional taxes so guilds automatically get some, and the more people that throw money at definitely-not-NCSoft, the more Latinum goes into the game, but since no NPCs use it, you have to get regular Credits (remember this is a Star Trek game) some other way.
6. The base Economy designer doesn't have to care about it at all at first, the ingame ' Credits ' system is still entirely under their control, there are no additional Credits being generated through Latinum Purchases at all because the store items you can buy with them can't be NPCed.

Now I'm not saying that this is what is hinted at in any datamined text, but I'm not NOT saying that either, if you know what I mean.

It's still blatantly P2W because whoever has the 'Latinum' can pay other players in ways that will give them other currency and buy strong gear and similar things.

But it would mean that when someone wants gear, they give money directly to definitely-not-NCSoft, and most importantly the ability to buy Marketplace gear DIRECTLY with 'Latinum' means that a player does not need to 'go to an RMT site to get enough ingame money to make their bid' so they don't need any bots out in the world acting as a big faucet for 'Credits' so that they can 'try to get enough Credits to outspend the other person who also wants enough Credits to buy the cool boss gear the moment it drops on the Marketplace'.

All people involved in the whole 'I want the first Auctioned drop of Queen Bella-- er I mean the Borg Cube' just throw money at definitely-not-NCSoft, possibly in a huge bidding war, and then all that 'Latinum' goes to a player who put in the effort to earn the gear (or invested early before prices got insane)

But Latinum leaves the economy whenever anyone uses it to buy cosmetics...

I'm just saying that there might someday be a game out there, perhaps sometime soon, be a game out there that uses this model. It might not even be a Star Trek game.

Azherae wrote: »

I'm just saying that there might someday be a game out there, perhaps sometime soon, be a game out there that uses this model. It might not even be a Star Trek game.

The super funny joke in all of this for me is that "this game" released back when L2 started having private servers You pretty much described how they worked with their "donations" and the currency you'd get for them.

So, for me, TL will not only be "L3", but exactly the L3 that I was playing back then (well except for the fucking autobattle, but I was just a way too stubborn dumbass who never botted, so that's more of a me issue).

This is so damn funny though.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I'm just saying that there might someday be a game out there, perhaps sometime soon, be a game out there that uses this model. It might not even be a Star Trek game.

The super funny joke in all of this for me is that "this game" released back when L2 started having private servers You pretty much described how they worked with their "donations" and the currency you'd get for them.

So, for me, TL will not only be "L3", but exactly the L3 that I was playing back then (well except for the fucking autobattle, but I was just a way too stubborn dumbass who never botted, so that's more of a me issue).

This is so damn funny though.

Ah? I didn't assume that because James' reaction implied otherwise.

Basically, this is where I believe the industry has been trending over time. Greedy companies push harder (BDO) but eventually community pushback would have forced them to stop being as predatory, but they wouldn't want to give up their P2W unless they had to.

When market pressure gave Devs enough leverage to push back against the 'business people', they would naturally fix the design toward the emergent optimal one, or close. And of course, things like Private Servers which would absolutely need to do that and would want to have a game running for, y'know... fun...

Would have stronger reasons to do it better. Will NCSoft actually do it? Will the 'business people' try to sneak in some other more blatant P2W and hope they get away with it? Who knows.

But Amazon says this game is gonna be F2P in the West. And Amazon is 'lazy' and just 'absorbs working ideas from other people's research/experience'. They don't have an incentive to do anything else (I'm glossing over the fact that I've crunched the whole datamine and there's also no INDICATION they will do anything else).

An extension of that is simply that if you do this just right, you also get players who use the autobattle but don't get enough benefit from it to spend more money. Autobattle in certain NCSoft games as it has been explained to me by a different source is a bandaid put onto their poor PvE experience and relatively lower/inconsistent population. Basically shoved into their 'focused PvP' style games to fix the innate problem of that game type. BDO by contrast solves the problem by class releases, Seasons, and throwing free stuff at you for logging in.

Guild Wars 2 gets away from this by giving a reasonable illusion of PvE until they get you to the level where they can start using real PvE or redirecting you elsewhere (look up their group content mechanics, particularly 'tanking', if you're not familiar)

I'm just saying that the datamine is 'missing' a few references to the types of item people normally consider P2W advantages. There's suspiciously little obvious 'Pay For Convenience' here other than the new Korean standard of 'It seems you suck at this game, would you like to buy a truckload of healing items so you actually survive, or perhaps an item to keep restoring all this exp you keep losing? You're not a loser, you're just an economically disadvantaged future winner!'

Azherae wrote: »

Ah? I didn't assume that because James' reaction implied otherwise.

Dunno what official servers did, so that might be the reason for James' reaction, but privates started off by simply selling items behind the scenes to make money to keep the servers alive, and obviously a ton of people hated that.

Then pretty much the majority of servers just adopted the "low cost sub" of "your rates are higher than the standard ones", with some low-mid tier gear in the shop for the donation currency and general consumables on top of that.

There's a shitton of range of that approach, depending on the rates of the server (pretty much determines how fast you level up and farm stuff). Some just sold enchantment scrolls, so that people could OE their stuff more easily. Some sold just fucking everything in the game. Some only used it for cosmetics, with that "sub" bringing the most money.

My main point is that I'm super used to this p2w style (and it's P2W AS FUCK), so even if Amazon does in fact not change a single thing from that supposed design - I'll be totally ok and might even like the game. If anything, I hope there's no lootboxes associated with that p2w, cause that's the path older versions of the game went down and ooooh boy it was horrible (and afaik official servers started that shit on their own and some private servers even made that better by just selling the stuff from the boxes outright).

Oh, I think I expressed what I wanted to say badly in that message. I meant that private servers used this system, not the official L2. That's why there was the difference in opinions.

NiKr wrote: »

Oh, I think I expressed what I wanted to say badly in that message. I meant that private servers used this system, not the official L2. That's why there was the difference in opinions.

In this case then, I don't understand (or might be making an assumption) so clarify to me quickly please.

You didn't play on 'No P2W' servers? (maybe those didn't exist?)

Is it that you don't consider this type of it a big enough problem for L2 private servers but would consider it 'a P2W problem' for a new release game? Or the final option that you're just 'mostly ok with it' and I misunderstood something else you said much earlier in this thread?

Azherae wrote: »

You didn't play on 'No P2W' servers? (maybe those didn't exist?)

Is it that you don't consider this type of it a big enough problem for L2 private servers but would consider it 'a P2W problem' for a new release game? Or the final option that you're just 'mostly ok with it' and I misunderstood something else you said much earlier in this thread?

I've played on a few lowrate servers that mainly had cosmetics and a super cheap "sub". To me that sub (or in case of TL the paid battlepass) is not really p2w. I totally get how some people would see it as p2w and I understand their pov, but I just consider it as a "paying devs for the good job" kinda deal.

Now, I can't absolutely say that those servers didn't do some shifty shit behind the scenes, but I at least never heard of that stuff back when I played there (while there's been big drama related to that on some other servers).

And while this might be a coping approach, but I don't think that L2 was ever fully fair, cause it had bots, rmt, then their own shop issues. I feel like that's just a default problem for most "kr>west" mmos, cause kr don't have all that shit due to your personal info being linked to the game.

If I said smth that goes against this logic, point it out, cause that might've been one of my contradictions I mentioned in one of other threads.

Watching a stream of the cbt. The game looks incredible, even considering how twitch butchers the quality. Ashes will have to measure up to it by the time they release. Haven't seen much gameplay, but I like what I've seen so far.

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Been watching it for the past 7 hours. Love it so far. It's a combo of mobile L2 versions and older L2 (way more mobile than old though). This will definitely be my main timewaster until Alpha2 comes out. Well, that is if the game even comes out in 2023.

All the auto-battle stuff is a bit annoying to me, but it'll just allow me to keep up with the "botters" that I would've been way behind if the game didn't have auto-battling. Otherwise it's such a fucking nostalgic game for me.

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I was watching Steparu and even against mobs that gave him 20-30xp, autobattling brought him close to death several times. He once went to fight mobs barely above his lvl and they hit him pretty hard. I doubt you'd be able to autogrind anything worthwhile at top lvls.

As for botters, they'll always exist and they'll always be ahead of everyone else on the server. Autobattling gives the casual players a chance to at least stay a few steps behind them instead of months-worth of grinding.

But yes, the content will be pure grindfest. The mobs will just stand in one place. The bosses will do the same. I said this literally back when we first saw videos of TL. Yall were puffing Copium like there was no tomorrow This is Lineage3 through and through.

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In Steven we trust.

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That's pretty much exactly how L2 was, so I definitely hope that TL can repeat that.