Please add arachnophobia mode in settings

Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 16:26:15

Ah this community is always so fun...

I'll support this because of the changed times and choices made by AoC as a generality.

Other games offered pathways. Whether it be 'play on PC and get the visuals of the mob modded yourself', 'change the way you interact with the mobs specifically', or whatever.

Since AoC doesn't intend to allow any addons and will probably use various methods to ensure that the game client's visuals are not easily modified, and is a game with a 'general mob population density' approaching 'sane' for most things and therefore would make it difficult to impossible to avoid spider mobs like in other games that design with certain player types in mind, they will have closed all the doors and I therefore consider it reasonable to request reopening of said doors with regards to the specific mobs that will have meaningful density.

Seriously, you guys are the worst...

Post by WHIT3ROS3 on 2023-06-15 17:25:33

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Post by superhero6785 on 2023-06-15 17:51:47

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Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 18:00:30

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Yeah yeah, the predictable response.

Except that the whole point here was 'people should deal with their own problems' which they have been doing in other games up until now by modding.

Console games add Arachnophobia because they can't be modded.

Ashes shouldn't be able to be modded.

I'm fine with the 'no, deal with your own problems don't push them on someone else' narrative when there's a proper path to that.

But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type.

But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does.

Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure.

Post by Mag7spy on 2023-06-15 18:13:55

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Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 18:31:28

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This is an ignorant take.

I expect it's almost exactly the same as Mag7's response though. Just ignorance.

If the community response is 'if you have Arachnophobia don't play' that is what it is.

If I thought y'all could generally be swayed by discourse, I'd have said more.

But to be clear it's y'all that are being 'triggered' by someone else's request, so I hope you can keep that out of the Dev Discussion when Intrepid makes it.

Don't be like me, don't attack the character of other posters because of their difficulty with coping mechanisms.

Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 18:36:41

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https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy14/mods/

Post by Ludullu on 2023-06-15 18:39:45

But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type.

But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does.

Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure.
If by some unholy near-impossible chance we get some good action-based combat for some mobs (namely spiders) and that combat relies on that mob's appendages movement or inherent type of the creature - how would (or do) the mod address that?

What do other games do in those cases? Iirc the Grounded game has spiders as literally 2 blobs hanging in the air. How would that work with animations or if the spiders had some special mechanics (like that thread suggesting spider's kids hanging on the mother and jumping off in combat or smth like that)?

Also, we've seen that "raise front legs" animation already. Would that have to go away? Or can arachnophobic people be ok with blobs that have 8 legs and can activate that animation? And as was brought up before, what about snake phobias? How can you change a snake into smth that doesn't look like a snake? A snake is literally a moving noodle. And if you don't give the ability to change snakes - why the unequal treatment?

I have unreasonable fear of insects. My heart rate goes up when I see one, and I move away from the insect by instinct. This applies for both crawling and flying ones. Should Intrepid change any and all wasps in the game? All centi-/milli-pedes? Literally any insect? How the game would look like at that point?

I'm all for support of people, but there's gotta be some kind of line somewhere. I could definitely agree if that line is just "it's a greyscale model with no intricate details". That seems like a somewhat easy solution to the problem from the dev pov, but I'm not sure if the phobic people would be fine with that approach.

Post by WHIT3ROS3 on 2023-06-15 18:40:55

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Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 18:51:07

But I don't really expect much else, I'm just surprised at the lack of understanding of this topic among posters who then have this response type.

But y'all keep going like this, I only care what IS does.

Seriously applying the slippery slope fallacy to arachnophobia of all possible choices though... slow clap for sure.
If by some unholy near-impossible chance we get some good action-based combat for some mobs (namely spiders) and that combat relies on that mob's appendages movement or inherent type of the creature - how would (or do) the mod address that?

What do other games do in those cases? Iirc the Grounded game has spiders as literally 2 blobs hanging in the air. How would that work with animations or if the spiders had some special mechanics (like that thread suggesting spider's kids hanging on the mother and jumping off in combat or smth like that)?

Also, we've seen that "raise front legs" animation already. Would that have to go away? Or can arachnophobic people be ok with blobs that have 8 legs and can activate that animation? And as was brought up before, what about snake phobias? How can you change a snake into smth that doesn't look like a snake? A snake is literally a moving noodle. And if you don't give the ability to change snakes - why the unequal treatment?

I have unreasonable fear of insects. My heart rate goes up when I see one, and I move away from the insect by instinct. This applies for both crawling and flying ones. Should Intrepid change any and all wasps in the game? All centi-/milli-pedes? Literally any insect? How the game would look like at that point?

I'm all for support of people, but there's gotta be some kind of line somewhere. I could definitely agree if that line is just "it's a greyscale model with no intricate details". That seems like a somewhat easy solution to the problem from the dev pov, but I'm not sure if the phobic people would be fine with that approach.

I don't even know where to start but bear with me.

1. Modding textures, sometimes even animations (as long as you don't mind things looking jank) is easy. Arachnophobia mode is among the easiest things to implement.
2. Arachnophobia itself, as well as your fear of insects, are partially based in an outright physiological response that relies on the thing actually looking like a spider . So in short, yes. Blobs. That's what they asked for. Note, again, for every other phobia they generally fall into two categories where you could avoid it because you know where to avoid, or you can't, and the entire problem with arachnophobia is that spiders can be everywhere.
3. The game does just blob it. See above. Super easy. If it can't do it for a specific boss spider sometimes it makes that skippable. This is common. Because idk, game devs are nicer than players? Maybe. Maybe not.
4. Some companies just take the sensible approach and don't make giant spider bosses. But I'll point out that most spiders work as blobs, this has been a thing communities nicer than this one have been 'working on' for years. I wonder why.

Arachnophobia for most people/companies is the line . Some games just avoid adding the snakes to begin with or put them in only specific areas.

So if we have to choose between 'some people get a crappy alt model for spiders' and 'Intrepid spending time deciding how precisely to place their spiders to give people ways to avoid seeing them', I for one am taking the crappy alt model.

Any chance at all that I can 'wear you guys out on this topic' by keeping this argument up? It works well for my data parsing anyway.

Even you are going the whole 'slippery slope' route, huh. For once, I'm surprised. Model updated.

Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 18:55:56

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Sure. The problem is that you're in the ignorant camp.

Because you don't understand what people are acting 'entitled' to, or you're just the sort of person that goes 'you should try to find a therapist for a sometimes highly physiological response instead of asking a developer to provide an alt skin for something for you' as a generality.

Perchance do you live in a country where this therapist would be 'affordable'?

Even this is just me messing around with you because you don't know how arachnophobia works so you can ignore it. Or you can keep responding from the same position, I'm sure it won't matter anyway right? This community has already shown that they are the type to support your stance. Always good to find like-minded individuals, right?

Post by Kesthely on 2023-06-15 19:06:12

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Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 19:07:05

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Yes, be sure to add that in the Dev Discussion on the matter when its made, preferably after every arachnophobe's post so they really get the message.

Post by Ludullu on 2023-06-15 19:16:44

So if we have to choose between 'some people get a crappy alt model for spiders' and 'Intrepid spending time deciding how precisely to place their spiders to give people ways to avoid seeing them', I for one am taking the crappy alt model.

Any chance at all that I can 'wear you guys out on this topic' by keeping this argument up? It works well for my data parsing anyway.

Even you are going the whole 'slippery slope' route, huh. For once, I'm surprised. Model updated.
I'm worried more about the gameplay question of the "blob". Can that be seen as an advantage? And if it is, in some way, then I'd assume most people will use that mod to gain that advantage (just as people do with visual settings to remove grass or to increase npc draw distance).

Or at the other side of the spectrum, could that be a disadvantage to the phobic people? If they can't properly fight a spider mob - they'll be avoiding it. So they'd be doing exactly the same thing as when there is no phobia option.

And I do find it interesting that arachnophobia is the line for a lot of companies. Is it just due to numbers of people with it? What about all other popular phobias like heights, tight spaces, crowds? Dungeons will have tight spaces so some people might not be able to farm them. The game will most definitely have huge crowds, especially around huge events. And gliding mounts (and scientific blimps) imply semi-frequent movement at big heights. All of those would impact a phobic person's gameplay. And all of it can be avoided in just the same way as spiders can be.

I understand that slippery slope argument is a weak one, but I feel like it's silly to address the issues of one minority while also ignoring the other similarly-sized minorities.

If anything, I'd love for there to be way of knowing where exactly those spiders (and ideally any other mobs) are. Add it to in-game maps, npc dialogues or, hell, have a "spiders nearby" system message if you have a phobia setting turned on. This would help all the other players as well and would just be a good QoL thing for the game. Let's people avoid their phobias, while also letting others find what they want.

As for wearing us out on the topic. For me, I don't think I can understand the point enough to agree with it. I understand that it makes me ignorant and I wish I could see it, but I simply cannot. My brain sees the difference between reality and a game, so in-game insects don't trigger a physical response in me. And if somehow, unconsciously, in-game insects have helped me deal with irl encounters better - than I'm even more biased against phobia-based changes. And you know how I approach issues - I bash my head against them. So even with irl insects, with time I learned to better control my response to them, because I'd just overpower the fear and either ignore the insect (cause I've heard that some of them are useful) or kill it asap. Maybe my fear is not a phobia, which is why I was able to get better at it, but I've heard that exposure therapy works and there's no safer place to do it than through a video game.

On this note I'm going to bed, but I also don't really have anything to add on the topic. As you said, it's up to Intrepid, so it's not like my opinion matters here. I won't be protesting the game if they add phobia features. I'd say that I'd feel bad for anyone who has a non-spider phobia who won't get a feature of their own, but I'm too selfish and ignorant to truly feel bad for them either.

Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 19:25:36

So if we have to choose between 'some people get a crappy alt model for spiders' and 'Intrepid spending time deciding how precisely to place their spiders to give people ways to avoid seeing them', I for one am taking the crappy alt model.

Any chance at all that I can 'wear you guys out on this topic' by keeping this argument up? It works well for my data parsing anyway.

Even you are going the whole 'slippery slope' route, huh. For once, I'm surprised. Model updated.
I'm worried more about the gameplay question of the "blob". Can that be seen as an advantage? And if it is, in some way, then I'd assume most people will use that mod to gain that advantage (just as people do with visual settings to remove grass or to increase npc draw distance).

Or at the other side of the spectrum, could that be a disadvantage to the phobic people? If they can't properly fight a spider mob - they'll be avoiding it. So they'd be doing exactly the same thing as when there is no phobia option.

And I do find it interesting that arachnophobia is the line for a lot of companies. Is it just due to numbers of people with it? What about all other popular phobias like heights, tight spaces, crowds? Dungeons will have tight spaces so some people might not be able to farm them. The game will most definitely have huge crowds, especially around huge events. And gliding mounts (and scientific blimps) imply semi-frequent movement at big heights. All of those would impact a phobic person's gameplay. And all of it can be avoided in just the same way as spiders can be.

I understand that slippery slope argument is a weak one, but I feel like it's silly to address the issues of one minority while also ignoring the other similarly-sized minorities.

If anything, I'd love for there to be way of knowing where exactly those spiders (and ideally any other mobs) are. Add it to in-game maps, npc dialogues or, hell, have a "spiders nearby" system message if you have a phobia setting turned on. This would help all the other players as well and would just be a good QoL thing for the game. Let's people avoid their phobias, while also letting others find what they want.

As for wearing us out on the topic. For me, I don't think I can understand the point enough to agree with it. I understand that it makes me ignorant and I wish I could see it, but I simply cannot. My brain sees the difference between reality and a game, so in-game insects don't trigger a physical response in me. And if somehow, unconsciously, in-game insects have helped me deal with irl encounters better - than I'm even more biased against phobia-based changes. And you know how I approach issues - I bash my head against them. So even with irl insects, with time I learned to better control my response to them, because I'd just overpower the fear and either ignore the insect (cause I've heard that some of them are useful) or kill it asap. Maybe my fear is not a phobia, which is why I was able to get better at it, but I've heard that exposure therapy works and there's no safer place to do it than through a video game.

On this note I'm going to bed, but I also don't really have anything to add on the topic. As you said, it's up to Intrepid, so it's not like my opinion matters here. I won't be protesting the game if they add phobia features. I'd say that I'd feel bad for anyone who has a non-spider phobia who won't get a feature of their own, but I'm too selfish and ignorant to truly feel bad for them either.

Well, in the hopes that I can 'educate' at least one person so that the Dev Discussion sucks a little less:

Of the top 10 or 15 phobias, I think Arachnophobia is the only true 'interactive visual stimulus' one of its kind, affecting somewhere between 4 and 15% of people (statistics are never accurate) with 5% or slightly more having the severe psychological reaction.

The people who post on forums for games to ask in advance if the spiders are avoidable because their literal bodies won't let them handle it.

Is it an advantage to them? Why even care? I love spiders. Love 'em to death. Hopefully not literally someday by playing with one I'm not supposed to. Do I have an advantage because most people have a mild fear of them that would make them ever so slightly less effective in a spider bossfight?

Some arachnophobes can use ingame spiders to get exposure therapy, and some can't. And the number of those who either can't, or who those terrible greedy game companies want to get money from, is significant.

And again, spiders are specifically 'more common'. Games often don't add snakes (they're not great design fun anyway), but they explicitly make giant spiders. This topic is about having the mode, though, so it's even more important. Some days one has the energy to push through it and go for the 'exposure' and some days you don't and you want to just turn the mode on and play with your friends like normal.

On this same note, IS, if you actually care about 'common phobias that are more work for you to avoid than to add a mode for' that people might be 'jumpscared' by... careful with the tryptophobia triggers too. I'm sure you can manage to build a cool game without that problem. I can see how it's harder to do that without the awesome spiders.

So again, this is really 'people thinking this is hard when it isn't' and/or using that as an excuse to target the supposed 'weaknesses' of others. Not that a primarily PvP-loving community has that tendency or anything, just coincidence.

Post by Mag7spy on 2023-06-15 19:34:43

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Post by Azherae on 2023-06-15 19:37:59

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Sooo you're gonna literally just make up numbers to support your supposed point as usual.

Cool, cool. At least you're consistent.

Post by Mag7spy on 2023-06-15 19:39:42

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Post by Azherae on 2023-06-16 19:51:51

Yeah I should probably have 'clarified my stance' more or something.

My group has been explicitly ignoring this thread because it's generally not worth anyone's time to argue with the 'bootstrapped personal responsibility' approach to mental health. The sort of person who thinks like that has a deeper personal 'reason' for their stance in most cases and all you end up doing is getting them to make exceptions.

I only said anything at all because we got to the point of 'Vaknar informing the OP that Intrepid is going to have a Discussion on it' and then people bothering to respond to Vaknar with their 'no, you can't choose to help these people, slippery slope!' and 'you can't do this, it isn't really help' and whatnot.

Which I saw as 'people literally wanting to tell a game company not to implement Arachnophobia mode because of their personal life philosophy being triggered'.

And on that premise specifically I stand by what I said and will gladly breed any contempt and bitterness toward me that I can manage, since that's the way I've learned works on those types of people.

The sort of person who has enough empathy to be convinced isn't often the type of person who 'stays mad at me for calling it out'. Just going from experience. I've learned to add things like 'seriously, you guys are the worst' because it's a good distraction for all the people who just want to be mad, who then don't really address the point or do stuff like Mag7 does.

Even this post isn't for anyone here except maybe you @Voidwalkers . As you will, so shall you be, and all that.

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