DPS Meter Megathread

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

We have not received permission from Dygz to share the quoted post.

That question was in the context of Mag arguing about socialness (or lack of) of trackers. I simply tried to put him into the shoes of someone on the other side of his argument.

You're more of a unique situation in this context because you agree with Mag's stance of "we shouldn't need trackers", but you're also not a pvper, so my example doesn't apply to you in the way it, supposedly, applies to Mag.

We have not received permission from Dygz to share the quoted post.

As been stated before, trackers and meters simply use those personal logs (unless you're WoW, but we're not, so fuck that).

And when the game is built around party being a single combat unit, personal logs ARE a part of the party log. So if the party fails to do smth, it's much easier to notice the source of the fail if everyone has their logs. And as Azherae pointed out in the past, parties usually have a person who's the best at analyzing logs, so instead of every member doing it on their own - it's a party interaction, mainly with the "log person".

We have not received permission from Dygz to share the quoted post.

Yes, some things will be obvious after a loss. There was a meme in russian part of L2: "archer asks his healer "why did I die?" and the healer says "your HP hit 0".

But Azherae, Noaani and I usually discuss meters in the context of high lvl pve, where "your hp hit 0" is not even considered as a thought, because it's several steps below the "obvious" lvl of understanding of the previous encounter.

In other words, we're talking about hardcore challenge pve, while, I assume, you're mostly talking about lower challenge pve. Unless your party experience differs from your own preferences? Cause I don't remember if I've ever asked you about that.

We have not received permission from Dygz to share the quoted post.

Be careful with such assumptions, or else Mag will say you're personally attacking him

Alright! Back after engaging the add that was constantly pulling us off the boss, I guess?

@NiKr - note that I'm just talking about any scenario in which there are too many things happening for a single person to easily track. High level teamwork in nearly any situation requires some form of baseline point for improvement that requires this (in the games I play currently).

So, Dygz, there's a part of this I don't understand, because once again, it sounds like the exact same flow but with a different outcome that isn't related to the tracker, but to the group.

You're supposed to be able to 'flag the weakest link as the source'. I consider it better to have a way to avoid the argument over 'who the weakest link was', particularly when there are conflicting goals in a moment. Sometimes it's not even an argument, 'everyone at once' is feeling the same thing, but they don't know where to target, so the leader decides.

Whether or not the leader 'looks for someone to blame the loss on' is irrelevant, the leader is always 'looking for something (and therefore someone) that needed to either play better or be supported more, but as always, the outcome/goal of having that data differs.

This probably 'can' occur even in games with 'average challenge' if the goal of the players is to improve at the game, and PvP/PvX MMORPGs have a 'challenge rating' that is determined primarily by the skill levels of the top 10-13% of players regardless.

Anyways, if y'all want clips, I got clips! We can discuss really concrete stuff. I have 'brought the items to clear the encounter', lmk if we wanna use 'em.

We have not received permission from Otr to share the quoted post.

We're still waiting for Steven (or maybe Bill Trost?) to tell us.

Since 'target audience' is going to be decided by design, not 'by whether or not the trackers are technically banned', then it comes back to what Dygz was saying. If the game is built so that the challenge level isn't one where the 'average person that knows how to get a parser' actually cares about it, then most likely, the sort of person who enjoys the part of the game that involves parser usage, won't be the target audience.

One more week to go...

Azherae wrote: »

Bill Trost?

Imagine seeing Bill in the year of our sandal 20 twenty four I can't

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Bill Trost?

Imagine seeing Bill in the year of our sandal 20 twenty four I can't

I bet Bill dunks on all of them in PvP.

Azherae wrote: »

I bet Bill dunks on all of them in PvP.

Would be the best start to 2024

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

No, that's just basically 'the thing I told you that I can do already', implemented directly into the monitor instead of into a specific piece of inbetween hardware.

Now, I agree that it's a big problem simply because 'just buying a monitor' is REALLY accessible relative to what I was talking about, but we're right back to 'the only way to solve this is with proper design, halfassing it will never get you there'.

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

Eh, don't worry about it, I guess I was moreso addressing NiKr than you. I just slipped up on my usual method and addressed you directly.

Probably not even worth any additional conversation.

Azherae wrote: »

I guess I was moreso addressing NiKr than you.

You were indeed, cause every god damn comment after mine had my ping in it Sometimes I truly hate this forum's quoting system. I hate yall for using it in the way most of yall do, but can't fault humans for being humans too much I guess.

And like you said, design should address this kind of thing, cause w/o additional software this thing only seems to be able to see what you see, so it's a glorified WoW tracker addon.

We have not received permission from Noaani to share the quoted post.

If we get anything like that before Ashes releases - I'll be playing it solo, cause I sure as hell won't be playing with pretty much cheaters.

This stuff is already riiiight on the line for me. Anything that "sees" more than the player can is just cheating imo.