10-15 SECONDS TTK

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Character would be a healer, more of a decoy.

Or a Tank, whose abilities are mostly certainly not going to be very statistic heavy, because the Evasion is the required mitigation.

The character really doesn't need to reach 'not be hit' though, in Ashes. Since so much damage comes from skills, if skills can be evaded, the character only needs to 'soak up a lot of enemy Mana', which is just a matter of getting enough Evasion for RNG to take care of the rest, and knowing which enemy specced for Accuracy.

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The thing about the stream, though, is that you have to know who to watch.

Some characters died quickly, others died slowly because of a specific thing you can see, others didn't get focused hard enough to die, and only two (that I saw) got focused and still had enough flow to not die.

The Phoenix Initiative people would have to tell us for certain, but the stream definitely did not look to me like 'normal play' except if you were looking at Tradd or Keenan.

(yes, I've done the analysis of it, but only as an observer, which isn't useful for discussion, particularly when I don't know why certain players didn't just get focused down by the three enemies close to them, and instead they spread out the battle TL style, I don't know what the motivation for doing that was).

Basically though I'mma be that person and say:

"The stream didn't represent the TTK well enough, consistently."

PI members can ofc dispel this notion of mine instantly since they're the ones with the real experience.

EDIT: Actually I have a sorting method!

If you watch the Node Wars Preview stream from timestamp 34:08 until 34:25 and you think that the TTK there was too slow.

Azherae wrote: »

(yes, I've done the analysis of it, but only as an observer, which isn't useful for discussion, particularly when I don't know why certain players didn't just get focused down by the three enemies close to them, and instead they spread out the battle TL style, I don't know what the motivation for doing that was).

Having listened to several PIs from the Winstead side, it was all due to scripting of the overall fight. Miraleth people were so much weaker that Winstead leaders had to tell their players to slow down and let Miraleth win from time to time. Maybe not in all fights, but definitely near the Spike at the end.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

(yes, I've done the analysis of it, but only as an observer, which isn't useful for discussion, particularly when I don't know why certain players didn't just get focused down by the three enemies close to them, and instead they spread out the battle TL style, I don't know what the motivation for doing that was).

Having listened to several PIs from the Winstead side, it was all due to scripting of the overall fight. Miraleth people were so much weaker that Winstead leaders had to tell their players to slow down and let Miraleth win from time to time. Maybe not in all fights, but definitely near the Spike at the end.

That is exactly what I expected and for those who believe me, this isn't because of thinking it was scripted from the start.

It's because I can see from the battle flow and tactics that Winstead was so focused and Miraleth so comparatively unfocused that there was no way Miraleth would win without Winstead slowing down.

There are definitely multiple points in that stream where they 'let someone get away' when they don't have to, or when Tradd dives into an enemy group for a trade that could have been resolved without that being necessary.

Not everyone plays perfectly, and that's a good simulation of that too, but it doesn't tell us as much about TTK. I can list the specific points where I personally feel like we got 'a real TTK' (not a real risk vs reward viewpoint).

34:08 is Tradd's 'dive', 34:26 is a dual-kill after a successful Javelin pull. There are others, but those are the ones that give us 'pure' TTK data for group battle (and for the 34:08 one, technically some real info on solo).

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The PI has spoken!

It still looked too sus, but it probably fits for the game type.

My own main reference for the aspect of it I was personally looking for is 47:12 onward.

What was even going on there?

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It's not just Steven, though, there is at least one (I think 3) other points where someone is level 20 and only barely escapes a 'sorta 2v1', 'because of it'.

I don't have a problem with this sort of thing, even if it is scripted or Winstead was asked not to win too hard.

But yeah we should probably care more about what the various players say about how the TTK feels, rather than any TTK 'data' from stream.

And even moreso, TTK will feel different for different people because of their preferences in game style. For me, this TTK is slightly too slow for the game type that Ashes is, but since I don't like the Shotcaller game style in the first place and it has to be this way to keep the Rangers in check, it seems fine for those who like that type.