Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.

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Let's put it this way. Say, you dislike rain. Like, reaaaaly dislike it. And at some point you wanna move to some nice place. You find an amazing place to move to, with all the things you like, all the conveniences you'd want, all the entertainment, etc etc etc.

But this place gets heavy rains DAILY. Everywhere is fucking raining. You simply cannot avoid rain. It's the law of the land.

Would you move to that place or simply pick another one that might have fewer things that you like, but doesn't have the rain?

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It's all just boobs and us L2 players are sliiiiding in between them

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Nah, I'm shit at expressing my thoughts verbally, so I much prefer text, even though I'm a super slow reader and it takes me a long time to word stuff properly.

My post took me almost 3 damn hours to write

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YokaiTheater and TGFtavern do forum post reviews in some shape or form.

As for collab streams. I'm definitely not against them, but I dunno if all of our sleep schedules would match for them. And while I do have electricity 24/7 now, I dunno about later and definitely dunno about Flanker's situation with it.

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Except it does provide you with stuff. No sane person will attack you in nodes (and I fully expect the ability to attack people in nodes to go away). You can join parties and guilds that will protect you from "the rain". There's gonna be instanced content that won't have "the rain" in it. Freeholds and stalls will completely protect you from it as well.

But outside of those time/spaces - it'll always be a chance of rain. Sometimes a near-100% chance as well. And it WILL stop you from going to the park or eating at an open door caffee.

As Flanker said, you're afraid of an occurrence that has singular digits of %s to happen, but you want to change the entire game's design just to remove those <10%. Even though these few % can still be avoided by several in-game means.

If you're going to a place that has daily rains (i.e. Ashes with owpvp) - expect to get wet from time to time (i.e. get attacked in pvp in the open world).

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

As Flanker said, you're afraid of an occurrence that has singular digits of %s to happen, but you want to change the entire game's design just to remove those <10%. Even though these few % can still be avoided by several in-game means.

Are we going back to ignoring that L2 stopped people from dropping items fairly early in and seemingly never had them drop as much as Ashes does?

I feel like this needs to be factored.

Azherae wrote: »

Are we going back to ignoring that L2 stopped people from dropping items fairly early in and seemingly never had them drop as much as Ashes does?

I feel like this needs to be factored.

They were dropping on death from npcs for 2 years after release. But yeah, you got a point that there's a higher chance of PKing cause Ashes has player loot (oh how I fucking hate that feature).

And I'll definitely admit I was wrong if that feature will highly increase PKing in Ashes. Right now I don't believe it will, cause I doubt people will risk going Red just over some mats, but we'll have to see.

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But no matter how you look back at it, it's absolutely not the same game.

All the incentives are different, all the underlying pushes are different. I will join the crowd of people saying that using L2 as an example of why a similar Corruption system works is not sufficient.

L2 crafting was also not very detailed, nor were pipelines required for much, and the economy even had two different 'auto-requiring' levers.

Continuing to claim that L2 systems work in preference to ArcheAge systems makes no sense. ArcheAge is the closer game because of the economy.

I will absolutely turn this into a true discussion of cost metrics if necessary. Do you have incentive to 'load up a Caravan by a particular time' in L2? No. Do you have a benefit in delaying an opponent group from finishing a task in time before you know they log off because they want to fill up their caravan? No.

In this conversation, the L2 vets are the ones at the experiential disadvantage. If y'all want people to listen to you when things are L2-adjacent and your experience counts, you need to do the same. Or not, and get the 'Lineage2 brainrot' response.

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There is no value.

The two are not related.

As a person who plays one game like this, has played another, and helps with one.

The two things are absolutely not related. In games that work the way Ashes implies that it will work, every time a certain type of person PKs, they absolutely expect to be hunted down and die, and they are doing it anyway with the intent to benefit their group/guild.

Since Ashes does contain incentives through which a person can benefit their group/guild by killing random solo players, this will happen. We could remove 'incentives for killing solo players' through a redesign of some stuff, but no one wants that.

So, focusing on just that point, I say just dismiss it. The Bounty Hunter system does not contribute to this. If anything, the sort of 'perma-red' who harasses or PKs for fun, is trying to attract bounty hunters.

Azherae wrote: »

I will absolutely turn this into a true discussion of cost metrics if necessary. Do you have incentive to 'load up a Caravan by a particular time' in L2? No. Do you have a benefit in delaying an opponent group from finishing a task in time before you know they log off because they want to fill up their caravan? No.

The closest parallel I can give here is big boss respawns. Those encounters always required prep, in both an economic way and a quest-based activity way.

Economic part would come in the form of soulshots and loading up crafters with mats for crafting them during the encounter itself. While quest-based activities were a simple "do this quest to get a key that will let you inside the boss room".

Considering that those bosses would require a few hundred people (especially when you account for potential pvp), the economic side would need to be done at scale. Depending on how deep into a server's life this was taking place, the ease of that prep would also vary.

The quest activity was the same for everyone, so pvping enemies doing this quest would directly impact their ability to even attempt the boss, which usually led to lookout alts being placed at the locations/npcs where the quest would take you.

I've experienced several situations where bosses couldn't be killed due to a poor eco prep and I've been on both sides of "not enough people managed to do the quest before the boss respawned so we lost this farm to the enemy".

I would imagine that PKing might go up in numbers if gatherable mats get to a super high value due to some event or boss or whatever, but then this becomes kind of a separate discussion.

If the value of mats is high enough - pure PKing would be more viable, cause the risk would match the reward. Yes, I'm sure that there'll be some people that will still try to get the mat carrier killed by mobs instead (let's assume here that training mobs is not an option), but I'd imagine that there'd be more groups like yours where they wouldn't care as much about the corruption, while they will definitely care about the loot.

But in that kind of situation, there's no griefing. There's only directly intended usage of the system. I know Chaliux will not agree with this statement, but that's a whole separate thing.

Do you believe that the abuse we're discussing will go up in noticeable-enough quantity to differentiate AoC's experience from L2's to the point where our experience is not enough to viably compare the two? I'm not rulling out the possibility, but I'm not sure if that possibility is all that high.

And considering that it seem that AA's player-driven deaths only led to trade pack drops (which in Ashes would probably be mule runs?) - I'd imagine those would be separated from any mob location, so the abuse being discussed wouldn't even apply to them.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

And considering that it seem that AA's player-driven deaths only led to trade pack drops (which in Ashes would probably be mule runs?) - I'd imagine those would be separated from any mob location, so the abuse being discussed wouldn't even apply to them.

That's just it though.

You imagine.

Whereas people are telling you 'no that doesn't work like that'. Isn't that a huge problem in your mind? Isn't it the same? People imagine that this game will be unpleasant because of L2 stuff and you say 'no that's not how it works you just have to trust us'.

Why aren't you doing the same for the other side?

It literally comes down to the fact that you are the one who has not, afaik, played the games that work like this, and nearly everyone that has played them tells you that your viewpoint is wrong. If you ever expect others to listen and not just 'stick with whatever they imagine will happen due to L2's system', then do the same.