DPS Meter Megathread

NiKr wrote: »

We have not received permission from Noaani to share the quoted post.

Would it be though? If the difficulty is high enough for top end dudes to take a week or two of proper prep to clear a single boss, any non-meter non-hardcore group would probably take months on that single boss (probably even if they look up how to beat it).

And with, say, 15 of these getting added every year, majority of players would never catch up. And if the game provides gear that lets even the 50% clear this, that would mean that the power creep got high enough to trivialize that hardcore content. Which imo is just too damn fast.

We have not received permission from Noaani to share the quoted post.

That other content would probably be completely trivial for those top players, right? Otherwise those 50%s wouldn't be able to clear enough content. And I'd assume that trivial content would get real fucking boring if it was the same daily bosses, right? So the game would probably need a few hundred higher quality bosses to provide at least some variety for several group types of people.

And considering gear progress, each dlc would probably need to add several hundred new ones. And I personally don't see any current dev company keeping up with that kind of pace. Maybe UE5 can help out with that, which would be great, but will have to wait till there's way more UE5 mmos out there.

Azherae wrote: »

Once again, the 'tell you that your rotation is good' is often the ONLY thing the Tracker is FOR in FF (except that there are no rotations). The randomness is then the reason you need it .

This is why I'd be fine with a dummy that helps you perfect your rotation, so then you know your limit and will have to figure out how your limit matches up with your current encounter.

But I also support a good combat log and I understand that people will just write their own parsers for it (or use act I guess), so no matter how much I might be against the increased pace of content clearing that meters bring, I understand that they're completely inevitable in the context of "players have the info to know what's happening during a fight". And I want players to have that, because otherwise it's a feelbad situation.

Guess this is the biggest contradiction with my current views

Relative to the content release part:

Weaker content can still be a puzzle, especially when the game doesn't have large power creep in terms of Damage stats leading directly to output, which is exactly what Ashes plans to be. The groups I've been in and know of 'solve this problem' differently, by splitting up the raid or running the lower tier content on those weeks and times where everyone can't get organized.

So you actually get the situation where the Mid Tier bosses are 'Top End Content' for the Mid Tier players, but they are the 'fun off-week content' for the Top Tier players. The thing you do with half the team or less when your main tank's got a wedding to go to or something.

The issue is just of content flow itself. There's no 'raiding scene' if there's no time where the whole Raid Group has to come together and give it their all, but the mid content isn't the thing you run 'at your full power'. You use it to do things like test entirely new builds, build up synergy and camraderie with new recruits, etc. Note that most people will do this only because the content is known to be simple. When they have already established themselves as one of the top groups by taking down or being the closest to taking down the big one.

Relative to the dummy:

I don't play games where the dummy would matter, because again, your moment-to-moment reactive stuff changes as soon as 'Jormungand' does. There is no 'rotation'. The Tracker is just there to give the statistical part. The argument used by some, that 'numbers shouldn't matter as much if the game is good', I'm gonna be that person.

Those people are nowhere near top end. Yeah, I said it. If you play this type of MMO, and you somehow think that your physical skill is going to be the thing that matters enough so that you don't need the statistical output of your hitrate or 'figuring out which moments your target has some sort of hidden-ish front guard', you're not good enough to be concerned.

The physical skill of top-end gamers in games like BDO and Tera, especially on things they actually practice, is so high relative to the game requirements that they hit the ceiling for that really early in. I'm fine with games that have a low 'physical twitch skill' ceiling, but anyone who argues that the game should have more of that in order to 'make the Trackers less important' has either never risen to the top 5% of skill in a game or isn't referring to games where the Accuracy stat has any real meaning.

There is no 'rotation' for Katzvariak or Nouver in BDO, you adapt and react what you are doing every 2-3 seconds, if even that.

But BDO contains an Accuracy stat and it is possible for my attacks to miss either of these despite me moving perfectly correctly, so if BDO was a serious game, I'd absolutely throw my general accuracy into the parser to find out if I should build more Accuracy or drop some for more damage. My physical play wouldn't change at all because it already has to be near cap to do the things I want to do (because BDO is so poor/dead, I get lots of chances to solo the more obscure bosses, but I think I've mentioned it takes about an hour and a bit to do so, and that's actually all the time you have before they despawn).

So yeah, nothing is going to change the general player desire to 'know their hitrate' or 'know whether or not the Accuracy Down debuff applied by this mob is actually a flat 15%, a decaying debuff that starts at 40% and wears off 1% per second, or actually a thing that ticks up and down based on if you are hitting the mob with a melee attack while you have it'.

We have not received permission from Dygz to share the quoted post.

Maybe so, but all you've said here is that you're familiar with leaders that are shortsighted and poor at using them, and for whatever reason you don't end up playing with leaders who know how to use them in the way Iskiab mentions.

I'm not sure how banning the trackers is the solution to those people. The people will not be different. Usually they are worse.

The argument would therefore be that this isn't a reason to ban the Trackers, same as always.

We have not received permission from MrPockets to share the quoted post.

Data parse indicates that the margin of those who support Noaani's suggestion relative to meters is 54%, I believe.

I'm not saying you need to believe my parse, only pointing out that from the perspective I hold, objective data says 'Yes, trackers ok'. So you'd have to do your own parse, show me methodology, and compare and question to mine, and only then after your parse was demonstrated to be more accurate, would I have any reason to accept it as 'objective data'.

Noaani has claimed at some point that some past or present Intrepid Dev is in fact partially responsible for the tracker the game already has.

Perhaps the majority of devs don't want one, but we really have no way to know that, as there's no indication there was an 'internal poll' of any kind that 'led to this outcome'. The Devs are the people whose input we know the least.

In the end, that's sort of the difference between the two camps. It'd make more sense to throw out all the supposed 'data' altogether and focus only on the discussion points, and that's why this thread gets resurrected.

Letting it drop off is great.

Making claims about majority and objective data isn't so great.

We have not received permission from Ongfrnocap to share the quoted post.

Oh how I wish I could somehow flag this as 'politics'.

The answer is definitely that the shooter killed the rock with the knife and the dps meter told us how much damage was done to the person.

We have not received permission from Ongfrnocap to share the quoted post.

The devil made me do it

Classic Steven leaving the "we'll test this to see how it ends up" at the end there, just in case he does change his mind once all the pvers will push their dps meter preferences