We have not received permission from Cypher to share the quoted post.
Totally fair, my point was moreso that we hadn't actually talked about that sort of thing at all, partially because it gets deep into theory that no one had engaged on yet. But I should answer
@Okeydoke
and since that's a smaller thing directly related to it, I'll cover it now.
Classes with few attack abilities need melee combos so that they don't just fall into the dreaded 'rotations'.
AoC doesn't plan to have too many hotbar skills, as I understand it, so we have to assume (hopefully at least) that they somewhat care about nuance in melee.
So, the reason why we care about Combos. Let's assume that my opponent has made a mistake and used an ability when they thought I was down or too far away, and they were wrong.
Split Body means I do a set amount of damage based on my weapon. The same damage I would have done if they stood there. But if I use an ability which I have the skill to hit with at another time, without having to wait for them to make a mistake, or they do this after I've used my abilities and they are on cooldown, then I can't take advantage of mistakes.
A new player can just 'mash the button and accept the set amount of damage'. This isn't terrible, they can learn later. They'll probably think 'this game is boring rotations' until someone shows them 'if you did one of these other two sequences of melee attacks, you'd do 15% more damage in the same amount of time, or put yourself in a good defensive position at the end instead of just being close, and without sacrificing damage'.
If my lunging Q, followed by my 'S+Q', followed by 'S+Q' again, does a sequence that ends in a big hit that does slightly more damage but has a longer windup/startup time on the third hit, it means that I can choose to risk 'my opponent evading this or stopping me' to get more damage.
Alternately
I could still do lunging Q, S+Q, but then feel 'they are going to dodge and counterattack, I think they will dodge to my left, I will finish with A+Q instead'. With a large enough 'A+Q' travel distance, if I am right, I get to keep attacking. Bonus if this sequence causes a 'combo' where I go diagonally forward instead of just directly sideways. Maybe I can get behind them.
In both these cases, the combo animation offered me an option that Split Body animation doesn't offer, at the risk of 'being wrong, losing damage, having to recover and being unable to move while recovering, allowing my opponent to do their own things'.
If I don't have something like this, as a Cleric, then my 'combo' is just 'my rotation'. 'Use X skill to cause Y, use Y skill to cause Z'.
Except that Ashes doesn't require me to take any of those skills. I don't level Judgement in the Alpha now, and Castigation is a utility style skill that has a longer cooldown so I can't rely on it. I either 'save it for my rotation' or 'lose my only rotation'.
The boredom would kill me faster than my opponents (because Cleric OP). You can add Weapon Skills to this mix, to help the process, but if those are spammable, we have one type of problem, and if they are not, we have the same problem as Castigation.
The (so far) minimalistic intention of Ashes' abilities and more importantly the way they hope to give people freedom in their builds, practically requires some form of advanced melee combat for people who get bored doing simple rotations or 'waiting for the perfect moment to do their rotations' (and this one leads to bad balance).
So the 'recovery time' as a whole becomes important. Specifically 'the fact that you can't move during the recovery time'. It doesn't have to be overcomplicated. Games like this don't even support more than five combos per weapon, the depth comes from 'quickly deciding which of those to use' alongside all your abilities.
In fact, we could assume we only have 3 attack 'types'. Standing Q, Lunging Q, Strafing Q. And that easily gives us... a whopping 13 combos in most designs (because Strafing Q doesn't combo into itself or Standing Q sensibly). That's quite a lot, but unlikely to all be implemented for all weapons, depends on the combo system.
I'm going to go overboard again and list a bunch of things, but the part I request you focus on is the fact that you don't have to care about most of it
at all
.
Lunge, Lunge, Lunge - Risk: Fails on any opponent side movement unless you are super good. Reward: Long chase. Has long recovery, very risky. No special damage, might even be less.
Stand, Stand, Stand - Risk: Fails on opponent backing out of range. Reward: Short recovery. Maybe a little special damage so that it's popular and easy for beginners.
Stand, Stand, Lunge - Risk: Nearly none. Probably a default in PvP. Reward: This is the default, so technically nothing. No special damage, probably just looks like a regular lunging Q anyway.
Lunge, Lunge, Stand - Risk: Can still miss or be sidestepped early. Reward: Shorter recovery than triple lunge so you're safer. Also probably common. Basic PvE combo for a lot of people.
Lunge, Stand, Lunge - Risk: Probably has a long windup on the third hit and longer recovery, easy to sidestep. Reward: Bigger damage
Stand, Lunge, Stand - Risk: Variable depending on how Intrepid implements it, if at all.
Lunge, Stand, Stand - Risk: Basically nothing, this is a chase and the reward for succeeding. Might not even be implemented.
Stand, Strafe, Lunge - Risk: Strafing the wrong way, missing the lunge part after, both more likely. Also creates a big gap for opponent to do stuff. Reward: Dodges close range abilties and gets right back in. No special damage, probably looks like a regular lunging Q.
Strafe, Lunge, Stand - Risk: Depending on implementation, this is either the same as Lunge, Lunge, Stand, or specifically intended to take long so that you are vulnerable. Another PvE staple against dynamic enemies.
Lunge, Strafe, Lunge - Risk: Nothing, this is what Split Body vs any retreating Opponent would feel like now. Reward: Nothing, for the same reason. Maybe something cool for swords.
Stand, Lunge, Strafe - Risk: This is a predictive attack that can fail and leave you in recovery by your opponent doing nothing at all. Reward: Catches them if you're correct, maybe gets slightly behind them if diagonal.
Lunge, Stand, Strafe - Risk: Another predictive attack, same outcomes, or not implemented so you can just dodge with a normal Strafe.
Action Gamers are thinking 'yeah! More stuff!'. RPG players who don't like Action Games or don't like Action Game stuff in their RPGs probably think moreso 'Why do I have to care about all that?'.
But you don't. It's intuitive mostly and only two of these give bigger damage. One (Lunge, Stand, Lunge) is easy to dodge, the other (Stand, Stand, Stand) requires you to be in range for the whole three swings, and doesn't move the attacker forward.
So what looks 'complicated', 'unnecessary', or for some people 'annoying'/'overwhelming', barely affects them unless they really don't like trying to dodge. At which point, they 'shouldn't' care about Split Body either. If these sound 'unnecessary', great. Don't use them. The depth they add is a specific type of thing which is enjoyed by people who literally 'just like to press more buttons and see more cool stuff happen'. That's what Action Combat is primarily about. Giving the player the feeling that they are the one doing the things and that the things they do matter in the way they expect.
That's where I expect Split Body to fail, actually. I feel that it will eventually get to the point where you are doing more things, but they won't matter in the way most people expect, for balance reasons (as well as making mobs more boring because mobs won't have combos either).
Which is why I personally would accept it if I was wrong about that. Just because I've never personally seen it done doesn't mean it can't be.
But boredom is the enemy of an MMO's longevity, right there on the list after 'balance problems'.
Aaaand this turned into an essay again. Fine...