PvP aspect and the likely effect to casual players

Post by Silberwolf on 2022-01-14 15:09:43

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Post by Azherae on 2022-01-14 17:37:05

Flagging for PvP isn't the answer. The answer is simpler, but I won't ask Intrepid to even consider implementing it, if the far off day comes when I'm in the position to, I'll do that myself.

The answer is to make it so that some random 'divine protection' kicks in when you don't fight back, that makes it harder and harder to actually damage a player who isn't fighting back (my full system for this is much more expansive but this is the core).

You can still kill them, but they have a much much better chance of either dealing with the situation, fleeing, 'watching how you attack them' to learn things rather than just dying, or 'being willing to engage or agree to fight you on some potentially more even terms'.

Flagging for PvP stops the game from being PvX and all the great things that come with PvX. The thing one needs to 'get rid of' is that constant stupid 'I didn't choose to attack first so now I've possibly lost the fight simply by that disadvantage'.

That's not good for even PvP. I'm not incentivized at all to fight back if I have lost over 30% of my health against an attacker before I realize what's going on. But similarly, the attacker shouldn't have to 'negotiate with me about whether or not I'm willing to flag up so they can kill me' if they don't want to.

I'm not talking like 'you have zero chance of actually killing me once I get low enough' or even 'yeah I've been at 10% health for the last 60 seconds and you're still whacking away, you do you, friend' (though it might get close against certain classes obviously, without proper additional balance).

There's too much important in the PvX space to add flagging, and too much important in goal of getting the PvE player space to be wililng to engage with PvP eventually, to just 'let people die completely normally when a serious PvP player jumps them'.

Skill gaps in games are huge, and they don't close via just time put in, in competitive games, since your opponent's goal is to prevent you from getting to fight back as quickly as possible.

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Post by Azherae on 2022-01-14 18:02:13

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As a PvX-er, I disagree with all of this. The annoying and painful parts of PvP are never mitigated by 'oh I could do so many other things'. So I'm honestly shocked that you think having a lot of things one could do, but having no restrictions on whether or not you can be repeatedly murdered one day while trying to do one of those things when none of your friends are on, is a 'treasure trove'.

People have limited playtime. Casual players in particular.

There are such a thing as 'Casual PvX players'. People who don't mind PvP in a game but will still be annoyed by any scenario where their ability to progress EITHER in their PvP skill OR their PvE activity is negated by some player who decides to make their life hard.

The fact that one doesn't get corruption until the player falls, and apparently only last hitter gains corruption, means that this is an easy situation to get onto the table.

Quests? Can be killed during for someone else's fun and no other reason. Dungeon content? Good luck getting past the guild who put their PvPers at the front door to control access to a drop inside it. House building?

"Oh wait I logged on after having to work a shift and not being able to attend the Node war and now my house is in ruins and I have to do it all again elsewhere', but I can't play more now so I guess I'll have to devote some of my playtime tomorrow that I planned to spend on rearranging my new furniture 'finding a new place to live entirely'.

Limited. Playtime.

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Post by Azherae on 2022-01-15 08:11:36

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I'd say the answer is 'obviously' no, but not just because it would be niche.

The problem with a PvP game that is niche, especially an MMO, is that server geographical location matters. You can't just 'drop people all on the same server and hope'. A western MMO has it even worse.

I absolutely wouldn't want it to die, but I think it would, or become oddly skewed, given the number of players it takes for the underlying systems to work.

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