lets talk about the state of the game and combat

As much as we would all have loved for Intrepid to immediately have 100++ employees back in 2016 and for the backend problems of APOC times to not have happened, and for the 'rona to not have existed, and for UE5 to not have come out - all of those things still happened and all of them set back development by months each. UE5 might pay back that time, but that's still unknown.

7 years can only matter when you're a preestablished dev company with years of experience working together and with the engine working perfectly for your needs. None of those things are true when it comes to Intrepid, so imo "7 years" don't mean shit, even if we all want it to.

On the topic of "come back to months-old videos and find them dull" - I haven't run into that issue as of yet. I've come back to melee showcase and to ranger showcase several times and they still look good to me.

As for "which combat is it", the mage showed 9 action and 6 tab abilities. Even if we remove the unshown ones, it's still a 6/5 ratio. That seems like a hybrid combat design to me, so Intrepid are still moving towards that, considering that this was a second pass showcase.

As for all the "wants and needs" of "us". The only thing I want is for them to keep moving in their direction. The only thing I need is for them to keep showing progress on streams. So far they've been doing quite well on both of those fronts.

Okay sure, I can always use the practice.

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Wow I hate this post already! (this is a joke/exaggeration)

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Already planned, sounds great, good job Steven and Jeff and whoever was the combat conceptualizer then for their forward thinking to look at the crop of games with good combat and incorporate all those things into the plan for the game back in 2017.

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It's that last one, and we basically know by now what it will be like, there's just a lot of people who want it to be more action-y. Steven uses words that can't be misconstrued negatively quite often, the result is that people who want to believe there will be more Action elements often expect more than there are.

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I'm on the fence but mostly agreed with you here, it's been really hard to give proper feedback on stuff. I choose to harshly believe that Steven has never experienced modern game combat and therefore simply always spoke as if the thing in his mind from the past, with relatively easy iterations and a specific type of balance, was 'combat'. So when they showed us stuff, Steven thought he was showing something that modern gamers consider 'combat'.

If you want to show me 'combat', show me a damage formula and a frame data spreadsheet. Other people may need to actually see the animations and distances, some people need to have it in their hands. My point is moreso that if the damage formula and frame data spreadsheet don't exist yet, you don't have 'combat' yet.

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Somewhat agreed, but to be fair on this part, even considering my response to the other part above, 'subject to change' doesn't usually mean 'will change'.

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I agree that Intrepid could do a better job of showing the direction of things. There are enough games out there that they could parallel to. I personally don't think that keeping stuff close to the chest is even worth it, and I don't know why they do, other than trying to deal with a specific type of person that just says things like 'this will just be a ripoff of something else'.

I don't think this is worth avoiding. It's 2023, and unless the entire target audience of Ashes is 'MMO players who haven't played another MMO or dived into a decent MOBA since Lineage', they're not going to be creating something new and amazing that will impress their audience enough that they need to keep it secret. I hope they don't think they are (but to be fair to them, there are definitely situations where that's the part of the audience they get feedback from and one could end up feeling quite good about it).

I can't judge whether it would be better to show more so that people who doubt them can see that their work will be on the level of GW2, Neverwinter, Predecessor, etc, or if it's better not to do that. This is assuming they have it ready to show in the first place.

So on that note to Intrepid (and I'm going to lean really hard into this if this thread keeps going, to the point of being aggressive about it today):

People are telling you your combat sucks because your combat hasn't shown that it doesn't suck, and people have expectations, incredibly 'common' ones, that you haven't been showing. I'm not saying you should be working on showing it if it's not ready, or even if it is ready. Only that if someone is thinking 'this is good and will gather useful feedback if we only show this much', the target audience that will be impressed enough to give feedback you can use is quite small.

Someone grab Steven and make him go play Predecessor with the combat team. He plays Sevarog, too, he'll be fine.

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This is a bad way to think about it that makes Intrepid out to be disingenuous idiots.

At least don't insult them.

If they say they want feedback and it's important, and they get feedback from whoever the small percentage are that can give it, why would they not take it? They might as well stop asking so often and so readily and just keep building the game.

They really don't have to ask for feedback quite as often as they do. They could just make specific types of hype/fluff videos and go from there. We've been told that the Devs 'argue' about this stuff as much as we do and our feedback is a thing that different sides of the argument use for 'reference'.

If you want specific combat things, do what most people do and outline them and wait for the implementation.

The only way this game is going to release with 'bad' combat is if Intrepid is refusing to listen in the first place, in which case you don't have any reason to care or even post here.

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That was a Cleric Update .

It gave us some new information, so it was valid to call it an Update. They asked for the bare minimum of 'hey did you see anything you want to comment on?'

Sure, some of us took it to be more than that or to extrapolate from it, but that's not on the designers nor on the Community Team.

"Hey here's us playing the current version of Cleric we have and some information, let us know your thoughts on what you see."

The Weapons Demo ended up in the same feedback section. Complaining about this is like complaining that you didn't get to see Spears.

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I'm utterly amazed at your ability to perceive an alpha stage as a completed game that will never change.