Aggro/Threat mechanics don't work in PvX

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We've already thought about how it'll influence the players. We just came to a different conclusion from yours

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Tab is A solution. Moving in a way to keep your preferred target between you and the tank is another one, and an action one. I mentioned build-based stat solution before as well. And potentially a buff-based one, so that your party matters (cause the buff would come from a support or maybe your own tank).

The game could have all 4 of those and you'd have yourself a huge range of solutions, from a purely skill-based to a "rely on others to save you" one. All w/o making tanks super OP, while keeping them with their unique playstyle that works in both pve and pvp.

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Mag, I just wrote 3 other solutions that would work for my suggestion.

And when I say "we've thought about it", I mean that we realize what the gameplay impact of the suggestion would be. And iirc Azherae said she'd probably not even want that type of thing in the game.

And as I said before, I'm fine with camera pan because I've already experienced it in Genshin and was fine with it there. And it seems completely fine to me as I imagine it working in my head. You keep saying that everyone would hate it, but we can't know that for sure until there's either a discussion about that kind of mechanic from Intrepid or until they, for some reason, implement it in the alpha and we get our hands on it directly.

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Stats and buffs are two separate solutions. The can overlap and would potentially boost each other, but they are still separate (or at least I'm suggesting them as separate).

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A mobile game that I've been playing purely on my pc for almost 3 years now. The camera is a bit further back than in BDO. And it forcefully shifts in some situations. And I'm completely fine with that mechanic. The only change that would happen in Ashes is the frequency, except in Genshin the camera pan can be sudden sometimes, while in Ashes it'd be predictable (because you'd see a tank on the battlefield) - at which point the mechanic is just a skill check.

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How I see it working is that the camera would only pan in action mode, because in tab its already disconnected character's movements and the direction its facing (example at 4:15 here you can see Steven run "towards the camera" and then later on he strafes around a tabbed mob while the camera is pointing to the side). And I think that at 22:30 of that vid is the "alt" thing Mag is talking about, where "in action mode" Steven could spin the camera almost 360° while the character didn't even turn around.

In tab I think the char would just turn towards the tank (and obviously your tab target would switch too).

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That ranger showcase showed that our movement controls will be all over the place already (unless they change the whole damn system once again). Across the whole system: we can run with the camera; against the camera; strafe around a target - all of those will require you to shift your direction of movement if you switch from one situation to the other.

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I want the game to force me not to be in tab 100% of the time, just as I want it to force people not to be in action 100% of the time. Otherwise, what's the point of it being hybrid.

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And we will never move out of it, cause no one approach will satisfy everyone. And unless Intrepid figure out what THEY want - they'll keep "fixing" stuff forever. We're already several years behind every past promise because we've gone through several iterations of combat and people still say that it looks weird/bad/clunky/unrealistc/etc, and that's w/o even trying it out themselves.

This is why I said that majority of current gamers will not like Ashes, even outside of any edge mechanics that we discuss on the forums. Which is why, considering that any preference is subjective, the only opinion that matters is Steven's. I just hope that others at Intrepid help him stay on one chosen opinion sooner rather than later. He's a tab player who mouse clicks his abilities, I'm sure that his definition of "clunky" is waaaay different from yours or other action combatants'.

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Yeah, I'd imagine there's a "center camera" function (if that's what you're talking about).

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We'll be able to tab to them though, right? So you won't have to spin your camera if you're trying to target someone who's behind it. And if it's someone super far away, then you'd probably have to adjust the camera a bit either way.

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I mean, I could maybe see this working as some "once in 5 minutes and only for <10s" skill, but definitely not a frequently repeatable thing. Not seeing or being able to target anyone else is insanely OP and even if healers just switch to aoe heals and running around, w/o seeing where their teammates are the team (and/or healer) will die real quick.

Also, this would most likely lead to window tanks that just cast this shit on super high value people. We had that kind of thing in L2 with a class that could steal 7 (out of 36) buffs on a semi-short cd. It was annoying as hell, but at least it wasn't p2w there. In Ashes it would be.