[Feedback Request] Alpha Two Commissions Preview Shown in February Livestream

Felt a bit more of a pve update than commissions, but I really loved to see the current build.

The chaining of events from one small task into a bigger event into a yet another small quest is super nice, especially for a "oh, a shiny" kind of person like me.

And as for the pve part - it was great. High dmg, relatively short leash on mobs, running out of mana (on a mage nonetheless) and even wiping on just a few mobs. Obviously people will outskill mobs too, but if this was a mostly solo location - this was great imo.

Pots might be a bit strong, but that's all easily rebalanceable, so not really an issue right now.

I don't really remember if I've ever seen fog in rain, but it feels like it should go away during it? Also would be nice to see water rise more in places where it would pool together, but maybe that's just not added to this particular region yet.

In other words, this definitely looks very nice already.

edit: holy hell the amount of stuff Steven dropped on death was crazy. Is that the current setting on death penalties?! Cause ooooh boi.

On the sharing question, I think it's fine for commissions, but I'd prefer if soloable bigger quest were more personal and special.

As for rewards for commissions, I think a lower reward for those who you share it to would be preferable. Though if several players can get the same commission (type) from the board - I think it'd be fine if people got the full commission reward (as long as they're within a certain distance from the quest location).

How do you feel about the Commissions Preview?
As a player of Elite Dangerous, TL Tester, etc , I feel neutral. I can somewhat imagine how impressive this is to those who have not seen it before, hopefully that's a feedback form. Nothing disappointed me outright, but this was my expectation going in, since I considered that if someone tried to stream/explain how it feels to do this in Elite, in a 30m stream segment, it'd come off about the same.

What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
Didn't really notice anything outside of my usual, I can imagine it being good, but that's all I'm doing. The Commissions part of the stream was maybe diminished by the rest of it, but it's an overall daisy-chain as noted, so it's fine. Basically, it's about the same as I'm used to, even from FFXI Campaign Ops.

Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
Nothing particularly exciting, compared to what I play now, nothing too concerning that hasn't been mentioned before. Econ whining, lighting model whining, mob difficulty/design whining, etc. I'm probably just cynical because for me specifically this is generic despite being presented as unique, but yeah, all just standard fare. That said, the engineering and visuals teams should absolutely be super proud of everything they've done. Design team, it's on you now! Don't let me end up in that BDO feeling again!

Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Surely already known for me/my group, but:
https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Mission_Board
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Campaign_Operations
No specific Throne and Liberty link, but they do their own equivalent thing
BDO actually has a similar thing, actually, but it's hidden and not often discussed. It's fairly simplistic, as is everything in that game, and Contribution Points are global, so it barely matters, you just grind them. I guess I'm concerned that it will, again, 'just end up as BDO', but that's still just cynical whining.

How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
I fear that it will fall apart entirely as the node grows without a large increase in the board size, particularly since it seems like the board must be affected by having more reputation? I presume this can be solved simply by having 'High Reputation Boards', 'A Rank Adventurer Board' vs 'E Rank Adventurer Board', etc.

Overall, I feel 'normal'.But even considering the sidequests and story arcs, I can give comparisons based on the games noted:
Compared to Elite Dangerous: Can't possibly match without a lot more effort, the Galaxy is too much larger, and the thing you have to do is, by design, harder. Probably shouldn't try, I'd say focus on getting the player who just wants a dynamic world to feel the standard tier of changes, etc.
Compared to FFXI: Looks like it could eventually reach the same level of immersion and interconnection, but just as the stream couldn't show the depth of its own systems in its limited time, neither will it be any benefit to go into it. I can say that I often appreciate just the changes themselves, since 'being unable to clear a quest or use a particular Auction House location in Aht Urhgan because an NPC was captured by the Beastman Forces during the last siege' prompts me to do specific things even without any dialogue or specific sidequest, and this, in turn, leads off down the same type of 'chain'.
Compared to Throne and Liberty: This is going to come down entirely to Economy design. Whichever game has the higher Economic pain point in its structure will 'feel worse', for me, as that type of player. It has a ways to go, but has many of the same systems already somewhat implemented, I'd say TL feels slightly more organic, but that's obvious, since I've played one of these games and only seen a 30m snapshot of the concept in the other.
Compared to BDO: Since this game is full of economic pain points and seems to be of similar difficulty to Ashes, I'm biased against it, but basically, when their events were occasionally good, it would be about the same. I'd say this comes down to writing quality and style, for me. A good way to summarize it is that BDO once had a collaboration event with a specific piece of media, and the writers basically 'used the BDO sandbox world as the backdrop for their character's story', and it was probably among the best things they've ever done. If Ashes can feel even close to the Netflix Cursed x BDO collab even just once a month consistently (quality wise), particularly if it really is random (trigger timing related to overall effort put in), it'll be great.

I'll give a slightly more detailed answer that actually incorporates all my 'Econ whining' in a separate post so that it's easier to compile the report. Expect that to mostly be about echoing what some other posters have said. The key to making this system feel good is to really tune exactly how much people care about it and how often it has to trigger for them to feel immersed. For every game mentioned, there has to be a serious period where 'nothing special happens', for the stuff that does happen, to 'feel special'. I'll give lots of feedback about 'clamps' on the 'BGS' in Alpha-2.

How do you feel about the Commissions Preview?

It looks about normal to me. This is what I'm used to from other games I play.

What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?

The problem that I tend to see in games with this system other than FFXI, ED, TL, is solved easily enough by connecting commissions down through vassal chains and trade relationships, something Ashes is poised to do.

In all of these games I have my usual play areas and cycles, but the organizations and game structures will sometimes send me outside of my home turf, to make deliveries, or handle some matter in the neighboring regions, or areas I don't tend to go to very often. This then has the effect of making me notice the changes in situation there, and having a concrete connection (even if just RP) between the status in that area and the reason I was sent over there in the first place, or something else that matters to me in my normal flows, even if only for context.

In Elite Dangerous, I'm sometimes asked to do a delivery or an "investigation" in a further away system that I don't spend time in. In the process of this, I might find out that that system has a famine, or security issue, which may be either related to, or incidental to, the reason I was sent out in the first place. It can also be very easy to find RP reasons that my faction's leaders sent me over there. Whether because I'm a specialist in X or Y activity, or it's something that one can easily perceive as linked to my factions own politics, internal state, broader goals, or similar things. I find myself having a compelling personal reason to spend time, even if only briefly, in a different environment , as well as a concrete feeling of how it relates to either my personal interests, or those of my "node".

In FFXI, the status of the Crystal War shifts on a regular basis, and sometimes, depending on the positions of our forces, and the forces of our allied nations, operations tend to open up in forward areas, or even allied just areas that we are covering for them this week (this happens occasionally). I get new types of missions available that are specific to those forward areas. Even if the mission types are familiar, the means of executing them may be very different depending on the terrain and structure of that region. It provides a new perspective on areas that I am familiar with, and a reason to visit some that I haven't been to recently, while still integrating this with my regular game flows to provide a sense of a more living world. Even if I don't think too much about the changes in my local area, I notice more clearly the same level of changes elsewhere, if only simply because more change has happened in total since the last time I saw it.

Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?

What do you mean "the additional lightning damage in rain isn't implemented yet"?

Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!

Covered above.

How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?

I liked the BDO x Netflix "Cursed" collab too. I don't feel like the showcase did a great job of telling me how they worked together, but obviously I can imagine, and my main experience with non-static (sorta) "breadcrumbs" writing of this quality that comes from the game, and not my RP leader, is from that collab, and these .

Ok! While talking to group I figured out how to keep this short.

Econ Whining
I know why I don't have faith in Ashes economy yet, now.

In FFXI, EVE, Elite, your goal is money or fun factor, and levels are incidental. Leveling doesn't, in itself, pay money, at best it multiplies your gains a little bit. FFXI manages because it's a PvE game, EVE manages because it is 'full destruction' PvP, and Elite is in the middle, where you can't lose a LOT, but you also don't gain a lot because 'levels' are nowhere near the same type of thing.

These systems shown are great if Ashes is that type of game. Where you can just 'not bother to level up, but go out and gather and kill mobs in competition or niche to make money, and the thing you want, due to scarcity, is money.

If you don't want money, it's usually because the thing you want to buy isn't on the market and you have to go get it yourself. This is the core mental state of the three games I mentioned, as I experience them, actually. You want something, you go get it. If you have something you enjoy getting more, you get that and sell it and buy the thing if available.

Similarly, if a quest does not reward something you like, and isn't very fun for you, you just don't do it. You don't necessarily 'look for a different quest that does' either, because questing for mats and similar is only efficient when no one else wants to do it.

My advice is don't incentivize Commissions too much, basically. It might seem like a good engagement tool, but I feel it'll mess your game up. In Elite, my allied faction, by itself, acts in 20+ star systems. The Emperor controls thousands. Each and every one of these has its own 'Commissions board' equiv. Technically every single station or port has a separate one. I'm supposed to feel like sometimes 'I just don't care about this, it's not my thing'. And it works because just within one random sector, I know there are over two thousand missions I could choose from just by flying around for between 10 and 20 minutes (give or take 400 - Average of 7 missions per faction, 7 factions per system, 3 ports per system, 20 populated systems in what I'm calling a 'sector').

One team member noted as her feedback to pass on, that if she was your Econ designer she'd be mad at you for this. As 'our' Econ designer I don't entirely agree, even with my cynicism, but in explaining to her why, I realized what I needed to say on her behalf, i.e. the above.

Oh, also, being able to kill people for loot the moment they try to kill a boss is bad. Not a 'make it instanced' or 'protect PvE players' suggestion, though. Just be careful with the conditions under which the PvX happens. The Stormcall event is a prime example of a spot in the game where a very specific type of unnecessary pain-point occurs. Not because of the PvP, but because you created a situation where the goal is for functionally unprepared players to randomly engage in PvE and then effectively broadcasted their intended location to everyone in the area. So please solve this by changing the reward system/structure for sidequests that have area-tells .

It's not clear what happens if someone else just kills off the Stormcaller, anyway, so maybe I'm just whining here too, but there you go.