I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-02 23:19:35

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-02 23:30:46

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-02 23:45:47

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Yes, all those old mmos just became hybrids. Just as Ashes will be. So we've come to the proper conclusion of hybrid is the best system and it's great that Intrepid is going for it :)

Post by Solvryn on 2022-07-02 23:59:01

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Post by Noaani on 2022-07-03 03:33:34

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Post by Azherae on 2022-07-03 04:13:17

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I've just realized what we should really be saying to you...

According to your own definition, there are nearly no Tab Target games.

EQ2 and Lineage 2 are clearly Action Combat, so there's nothing to really be discussing here.

By your definition, all those great games with good PvE are already Action Combat games and we just have to wait for Intrepid to make another Action Combat game just like them.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-03 04:17:04

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-03 04:19:09

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Post by Dygz on 2022-07-03 04:22:49

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Post by Azherae on 2022-07-03 04:23:05

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Ok great. Since we already know from the last stream that it will be more like NWO, and you've already clarified that it actually doesn't matter that much if some classes don't move around that much during big fights, it seems like Intrepid is on the right track and we can all hope for a really great Action Combat game.

As long as players:

1. Have to dodge certain boss mechanics by moving.
2. Have to be in the correct range for some abilities and aiming/facing the enemy to correctly use it.
3. Have to pay attention to their spacing for certain abilities or the enemy may dodge them as part of a normal flow.

We will have good Action Combat, and we already know and have experienced all those things in Ashes even on the less powerful encounters. We shouldn't be concerned about if any given player needs to move around so much, as you said, but rather if the core concept of Action Combat is maintained.

Core concepts that most games, even if they offer Tab Targeting, do also have. I'm sure you've played multiple games that don't have those concepts, but I don't think anyone's been actually talking much about any of those games.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-03 04:26:07

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Post by Solvryn on 2022-07-03 04:30:28

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Post by Azherae on 2022-07-03 04:30:52

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I guess SWTOR is a True Tab Target game?

I'm not talking about that though. So far I've seen an L2 player explain that your requirements for Action Combat are present in L2 (I agree that it isn't obvious by watching), and an EQ2 player explain that those requirements are present in EQ2, again, not obvious.

I also am a person who fights Ancient Kutum in BDO often, on Nova. I also consider that Action Combat. My character moves occasionally, and I do need to face in the general direction of Kutum for my abilities to hit, and we all know that BDO is an Action Combat game.

It's about the same really.

Post by Solvryn on 2022-07-03 04:32:14

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-03 04:42:12

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 04:48:38

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I sure hope that video is not the best example of action combat raid pve, cause ooh boy did that not impress me at all. Nor did it show the limits of action combat. The fight literally consisted of "move out of the aoe, use aoes against some slowish mobs and then stand in one fucking place and unload your 3 (maybe 6-9?) skills onto a huge unmoving target.

When Noaani says "action combat can't do what Tab can", I think he means the limits of the system in each given fight (or at least top ones). I did not see any "limits" being pushed in that NWO fight. @Dygz iirc you've played a fair bit of it, do you remember any hardcore raids from it? Maybe not that you've participated, but at least heard about? Cause I sure as hell hope that was not one of them. I'm an omega pve casual (considering L2's pve), but that shit did not look all that taxing. Even the BDO pvp vid I posted seemed waaaay more difficult.

Obviously I'm missing some gameplay mechanics and knowledge to truly perceive the difficulty of that fight, but the famous "action combat requires you to, like, constantly move and be alert and shit" seemed definitely absent in that video. Or was at least really subdued.

Post by Dygz on 2022-07-03 04:55:55

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Post by Azherae on 2022-07-03 04:57:10

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I sure hope that video is not the best example of action combat raid pve, cause ooh boy did that not impress me at all. Nor did it show the limits of action combat. The fight literally consisted of "move out of the aoe, use aoes against some slowish mobs and then stand in one fucking place and unload your 3 (maybe 6-9?) skills onto a huge unmoving target.

When Noaani says "action combat can't do what Tab can", I think he means the limits of the system in each given fight (or at least top ones). I did not see any "limits" being pushed in that NWO fight. @Dygz iirc you've played a fair bit of it, do you remember any hardcore raids from it? Maybe not that you've participated, but at least heard about? Cause I sure as hell hope that was not one of them. I'm an omega pve casual (considering L2's pve), but that shit did not look all that taxing. Even the BDO pvp vid I posted seemed waaaay more difficult.

Obviously I'm missing some gameplay mechanics and knowledge to truly perceive the difficulty of that fight, but the famous "action combat requires you to, like, constantly move and be alert and shit" seemed definitely absent in that video. Or was at least really subdued.

Nope, that's about it.

They're really the same, which is honestly a pretty big positive for the rest of us.

I'm sure Mag has played some specific games that aren't, but none of the ones mentioned so far are much different in my book.

The hard part of Action Combat (relative to Tab) is always 'getting back into position to start striking again' or 'making sure your aim is correct when the enemy moves. Any Tab game that also requires this is basically the same thing.

You can ignore any responses about Kutum too. The amount of Mobility and positioning required to fight it depends entirely on the class being played. The one I mentioned just has a huge shield so you have to reposition less often, which I think is the standard expectation everyone should have of the 'big shield tank' class.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-07-03 05:00:48

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Post by Dygz on 2022-07-03 05:13:33

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