Max camera distance suggestion
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I agree with the original sentiment, and I think strongly that keeping such a large max zoom not only decreases immersion and lessens the connection with the beautiful assets Intrepid has made for us, but also affects combat balance. There's one specific point that I haven't seen anyone bring up though. I strongly believe that so long as your computer can keep a stable high framerate and has a stable connection (say, 60FPS), and you've worked in game to make a strong build with powerful gear, you should not be put at a disadvantage because someone else can set the FOV or zoom level higher than you without suffering a framerate penalty. Successful MMOs provide equal experiences to folks with lower-end devices so that you can grow your community without having a financial barrier to entry.
Please cap zoom at a lower level before PvP events smaller scale than sieges become common, and avoid creating a divide between your players just because one of them can't afford the latest powerful rig, especially in the times we live in where getting
any
graphics card is difficult and expensive.
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The only thing it adds is the amount of additional mouse movement that I'll need to do in order to see the things I wanna see. Doesn't sound like a good addition to me.
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Could you give any example of those "viable things"? Cause again, I see no benefit in me having limited vision.
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Could you give any example of those "viable things"? Cause again, I see no benefit in me having limited vision.
In a game with even limited action controls, you have to choose between accuracy and time on target versus awareness. To me having a wide camera zoom doesn't fit a risk vs reward model in games with even soft tab. You are getting awareness, accuracy and time on target for 'free'.
You say it makes you swivel your camera more? That's the point. But you don't see why it costs something at first glance because you come from a heavy tab target game where this mattered less and was not a cost just an annoyance.
I agree with you that a full tab game should have a wide camera. Ashes on the other hand will have a lot of reasons why accuracy cannot be assumed with tab due to it's action and template laying options. I would therefore argue that among many other reasons this is a core argument for why a narrower camera view is better design for a game like Ashes.
You can definitely make arguments for why this trade off hinders certain play styles, but it's probably better you make those arguments rather than trying to convince people with an action combat background that a wide camera is strictly about comfortable play.
You can definitely make arguments for why this trade off hinders certain play styles, but it's probably better you make those arguments rather than trying to convince people with an action combat background that a wide camera is strictly about comfortable play.
I'd say that it limits design variety. If you camera is narrow even in tab mode, the devs can't create pve encounters that would require you to constantly monitor your surroundings while also engaging in a fight.
A super quick look through a GW2 guide video shows that they have a fairly distant camera coupled with a somewhat close action one, so this has been done before and, from what I know, worked just fine, because people tend to say that GW2 has the best hybrid combat.
So I really don't see why Intrepid couldn't either allow for both or have a smooth transition from a far zoom to a closer one when you switch between modes. And it's gonna be on the player to adjust to such a system.
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You can definitely make arguments for why this trade off hinders certain play styles, but it's probably better you make those arguments rather than trying to convince people with an action combat background that a wide camera is strictly about comfortable play.
I'd say that it limits design variety. If you camera is narrow even in tab mode, the devs can't create pve encounters that would require you to constantly monitor your surroundings while also engaging in a fight.
A super quick look through a GW2 guide video shows that they have a fairly distant camera coupled with a somewhat close action one, so this has been done before and, from what I know, worked just fine, because people tend to say that GW2 has the best hybrid combat.
So I really don't see why Intrepid couldn't either allow for both or have a smooth transition from a far zoom to a closer one when you switch between modes. And it's gonna be on the player to adjust to such a system.
How does it limit design variety in PvE? I don't see how this is at all relevant to PvE. If you are in PvE that requires that level of vigilance you require a party. If you have a party, communication resolves this. What it does do is make PvX a more tactical thing that requires vigilance. The constantly monitoring your surrounding at the cost of a little time on target or accuracy is a feature not a bug.
Here is a link for GW2 camera distance variation for those who don't want to look it up themselves and are unfamiliar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EWJZkwYBro&t=67s
The difference between where this camera starts at t=67 and where it ends is the difference I am talking about. The place where it starts I feel would work fairly well in Ashes. The distance where it ends is where I imagine most people who play tab target are 'comfortable'.
GW2 is a fairly PvP oriented game although it's recently gotten some good PvE additions. So you are correct in using it as an example of it being fine for PvP. GW2 lacks the level of PvX and the transition between PvE and PvX that Ashes will have. Ashes is a lot MORE about controlling a specific area and being able to be tactically routed or ambushed.
This fluid transition between PvE and PvP is why I don't think it's reasonable to go 'just make it optional or make action combats camera smaller.' That will just lead people to people flickering between targeting modes which I'd argue is way more of a user experience discomfort than swiveling your camera occasionally. I think consistency in camera angle is vital to keeping the two modes balanced.
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This fluid transition between PvE and PvP is why I don't think it's reasonable to go 'just make it optional or make action combats camera smaller.' That will just lead people to people flickering between targeting modes which I'd argue is way more of a user experience discomfort than swiveling your camera occasionally. I think consistency in camera angle is vital to keeping the two modes balanced.
Imo options are always better. You want close camera - you got it. You want far camera - you got it. You want to switch between the 2 and is fine with the resulting whiplash - you got it.
And we have no real idea how exactly AoC's combat will be designed, cause we've barely seen any finalized combat and we sure as hell know nothing about the classes design. And even if Intrepid do go down a very particular design path, making the camera zoom optional now would just give them a wider spectrum of "where do we want all players to have their camera" later on, if they need it.
This fluid transition between PvE and PvP is why I don't think it's reasonable to go 'just make it optional or make action combats camera smaller.' That will just lead people to people flickering between targeting modes which I'd argue is way more of a user experience discomfort than swiveling your camera occasionally. I think consistency in camera angle is vital to keeping the two modes balanced.
Imo options are always better. You want close camera - you got it. You want far camera - you got it. You want to switch between the 2 and is fine with the resulting whiplash - you got it.
And we have no real idea how exactly AoC's combat will be designed, cause we've barely seen any finalized combat and we sure as hell know nothing about the classes design. And even if Intrepid do go down a very particular design path, making the camera zoom optional now would just give them a wider spectrum of "where do we want all players to have their camera" later on, if they need it.
But it's not about options. Options will be always present. It's about 'what's the maximum allowed advantage in our combat design'.
And ok if that's your stance 'we don't know enough about this to make judgements' that is both factual and correct, but it's also where the conversation basically ends so good chatting with you I guess.
'Here are these principles relative to the big picture combat and this is why I think one mode would be theoretically better.'
'We don't know what all the parameters are for your theory to be validated as correct or not so let's not discuss it from that perspective.'
'Ok Nikr you right. Have a good day.'
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