DPS Meter Megathread

NiKr wrote: »

And as an addition to that question, would you want to have the same kind of combat mechanic in Ashes, or is it not even a "want" but a "need" because this mechanic promotes the use of your analysis abilities?

No, I hate this. This has nothing to do with analysis abilities in the way that I view them.

This is exactly what people complain about. Someone is telling you 'the way to maximize a situation that is almost always available to you'.

You're not adapting, and the optimal build is almost always 'figure out whether the window is more important than the between' (definitionally it is).

The whole thing is terrible for me personally, but the video creator does a good job of explaining that this IS also skill related, but the skill it is rewarding is 'relatively binary', so it empowers build so much more than actual skill of either of the other two types (coordination with others, and ability to notice what's happening).

I have so many complaints about this, that it would become essays again. I am deeply saddened by the fact that WoW has made this the standard for so many MMO players, because it means that it's harder to have conversations, as you've seen.

You've just made me realize that people might just be expecting Ashes to do something like 'force the Window to synergize over multiple players', which would be a step in the right direction, but is only a quarter (in my estimation) of what needs to be fixed for this to be good.

But trying to explain it all...? It would literally be faster to gift you Monster Hunter World on Steam (you want it?) and even if I did, you'd have to find someone to play it with. Then again, you are tenacious enough to just work it all out over time, as you've said.

tl;dr this is not analysis to me, this is bad design propped up by meters which then in turn reinforces the need/use for the meters. WoW is the antithesis of what I like in game design.

Azherae wrote: »

tl;dr this is not analysis to me, this is bad design propped up by meters which then in turn reinforces the need/use for the meters. WoW is the antithesis of what I like in game design.

Thx for your feedback. And even if I did want MHW rn, I don't think you can gift it to my region

We have not received permission from Chickenlipzz to share the quoted post.

This is also a problem with the perception.

In the simplest sense, the thing you need for WoW isn't even meaningfully similar to the thing you need in EQ2. So while people consider them the same thing because they CAN do the same functions, you use practically separate functions of the tracker for the two games if you are 'using the meter correctly' in EQ2.

This comes up because of a deeper game design problem. When a 'copycat' studio (even a big one), looks at a genre they don't have much experience with, they copy the parts of the experience they can understand , which is often NOT the whole thing.

This is partially how we got New World. There's nothing explicitly wrong with New World other than badly coded auth, it's just 'only part of what an MMO is'. That's why so many MMOs 'suck' while still being viable enough products to hold attention. They are 'unfinished games' but sometimes conceptually.

The Tracker's purpose in a "Whole Game" would not be to measure anyone's DPS against anyone else's at any point. You'd almost always only measure your DPS against your own previous, but the tracker gives you all the options to see 'what external factors over the course of a long fight were affecting it'.

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

I agree that WoW did everything you can understand better than EQ.

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

Thank you for your input as always. It's always enlightening to see different perspectives on the genre.

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

You're projecting a little. I definitely don't like your opinions. I definitely don't agree with them.

But disregarding them would also be foolish. You are right, a lot more people like WoW. Working out exactly why without compromising would be extremely important.

Your information told me something unexpected, so I thanked you for it. I don't usually thank you or engage at all. Being passive aggressive with you is generally a waste of time. But I don't auto-discard everything you say because I disagree with it.

If in that era, having more players was important and the way to judge success in the Genre (your given premise) WoW wins hands down. You say it moved the genre forward. I don't know the correlation there, but I can't dispute it either, so I'll take your word for it until someone else who might know better brings a better argument.

The discussion here is about the video NiKr gave. What do you think of the design principle in that video?

We have not received permission from Mag7spy to share the quoted post.

Ok, but do you have an opinion about the video?

EDIT: Realized I just did it again, yes. I tried to mold the conversation into being about the video and the thing NiKr was asking about, whereas you were trying to have a conversation about how WoW is just better and that has nothing to do with meters. Point proven, so no need to engage, ignore me.

We have not received permission from Strevi to share the quoted post.

This is making an assumption about me that I feel is valid but not true in my case.

Most people I've encountered who would ask for logs are the type to push hard, expect obedience, etc.

I can claim that I'm not but it doesn't matter, except that I'm of the same opinion as you are. I am now claiming that I don't like the behaviour of most other people who would ask for logs. It's therefore my perspective that the issue is unavoidable without there being no logs and no concept of anything complex enough where any equivalent of logs is important . You can either extend it to 'me admitting I'm that sort of person' or not, the point stands that the solution to the problem of 'people who ask for logs' is to make it not-complex. Just 'removing logs' doesn't solve it, nor does 'removing trackers'.

The only thing I believe one could do is separate the player groups. I have other concerns about this, because as you said, the type of person who asks for logs often also takes the freedom away from others. But in a PvX game, they don't just take away your freedom to play the way you want in their groups or influence the meta so that you're less free in the community at large... they can take more than that.