Non-Combatant attacking Corrupted

Post by hleV on 2022-09-05 20:20:48

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Post by GrandHarfang on 2022-09-05 20:32:33

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-09-05 20:50:08

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A pvper would be pvping. Be it in pvp events or at farming locations. Because those would be the main forms of gameplay for a pvper. So if a red somehow enters a farming location where pvpers hang out, there's a higher chance that a pvper would already be flagged or could easily flag himself against someone near them if for whatever reason they didn't want to risk their loot. Though again, most farming locations will be party-based so if they see a PKer - he ded.
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If you're planning on killing reds there's 0 reason to stay green. There's also a chance that BHs will be permaflagged against all reds (as that page indicates), so if you even join the organization you might be always flagged.

And if you don't join that organization, you're losing out on its benefits, as a pvper. And if you don't care about that system, you most likely have better things to do than hunt reds, at which point we return to the "if you see a red, you're most likely with a party and the red will be dead".

In the practical application of the whole system, the chance of the issue, you bring up, happening is close to 0. But what your "solution" would most likely influence is high lvl Reds attacking lowbies and said lowbies not having a way to fight back (even as a group) because them fighting back would probably never punish the red. While the red would be completely free to fight off any attackers all up until they find mobs to remove their corruption on. And this whole situation is not punishing the red it just lets him avoid said punishment.

Post by Dygz on 2022-09-05 23:50:50

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Post by daveywavey on 2022-09-06 09:00:08

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Post by Dygz on 2022-09-06 09:50:38

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Post by daveywavey on 2022-09-06 09:55:11

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Post by Laffreux on 2022-09-06 13:38:14

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-09-06 14:22:25

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It's about risk and reward. A red drops a ton of stuff (potentially) so fighting him should have higher risks involved.
  • If a normal purple attacks the red - he's already flagged so he's at constant risk of being killed by others around him (mainly Red's friends, if there are any around). And the red himself will immediately attack the purple in order to prevent his own death penalties, cause it'd be logical to assume that the purple would be completely fine with attacking the red.
  • If BH attacks the red or just even runs towards him (assuming the red sees him as flagged) - it's the same situation as with the purple, but with a lower risk because no one else would see the BH as flagged. I'd personally like for the BH system to have similar detriments to the "caravan's attacker" one. If the BH engages a red and dies - he should receive some hit to his organization progression. This way the BH would have a heightened risk too.
  • If the green attacks the red - they'd lose more loot if they die. But that only applies IF they die. In other words, the green has the lowest risk out of all potential matchups (well, that is if the BH system has what I suggested or smth similar to it).

And obviously the red has the highest risk of them all because he's red. And he has his own risk/reward situation. If he's trying to remove corruption through mobs, he'll most likely be farming an at least somewhat valuable location. And green that's there might've already been farming that location for some time and would have some juicy loots. So if that green attacks the red and the red wins - the red gets nice loot while being in a location that lets him remove his corruption the quickest (outside of dying obviously).

I don't remember if I've written it here, but my stance of the time required to remove corruption through mobs is that of "2-3 mins worth of valuable mobs for 1 equally-lvled PK". So that second green kill would put you at around 6 minutes of farming. If you're strong enough to kill the green that decided to fight you (meaning that this green is most likely closer to a pvper than a pver) - you're probably strong enough to fight off a BH or two if they come to you before you remove your corruption. And obviously, if several greens attack you - it'd be no different from the OP's suggested system (unless there's OP classes that can take several people at once).

Now we obviously don't know the details of corruption cleansing speeds or other values and we got 0 clue about the BH part of the system, but my personal feedback will be around the things I described, because those seem the fairest to me, all while preserving the ability to PK people at your own lvl and being able to avoid the punishment to some extent.

Post by daveywavey on 2022-09-06 14:39:44

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-09-06 15:03:33

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Being reasonable doesn't mean that you can win against all. But being purple is almost as big of a "hit me" sign as being red.

Though again, this whole discussion stands on the assumption that you'll be in a solo location where only one green might attack you. To me, as someone who has played with this system for years, that's almost an impossibility.

The only situations where I could see that happening is the player becoming red on a completely random green for no real reason, or if the game is so dead that a location with valuable resources has only 1 player farming it and another player who came there to kill him.

Because in all other situations it's any of these
  • you're in a party-based location and you'd be protected by your party and/or attacked by other full parties
  • you're in a location with valuable resources that either has several green people farming it and they'd all attack you for your loot or there's already pvp for those resources because people came to farm them prepared to fight for them
  • you're in a low lvl location to kill lowbies and you can't remove corruption through mobs because all of them are several minutes away from you and have parties farming them or high lvl greens who will kill you as a group
  • you're in a solo location that still has several people farming it and not just one dude that you can kill

All of those situations are what I've seen in practice and not in theory. All of them barely ever had a moment where just one green was "griefing" one red. And that stuff happening never warranted the changes to the system because they were so damn rare.

Post by tautau on 2022-09-06 16:14:58

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Post by Dygz on 2022-09-06 16:55:20

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Post by Dygz on 2022-09-06 16:58:05

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Post by Mag7spy on 2022-09-06 17:25:14

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Post by Ludullu on 2022-09-06 17:46:47

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Eh, I gave tautau the benefit of the doubt and read that in a different light. As in:
  • A death removes 600 corruption.
  • A mob of your own lvl removes 10 corruption and you can kill one mob a minute

What tautau didn't say is how much corruption you'd get from just one kill within your first few PKs. It could be 30-40 corruption and it would fit what I was suggesting. Or it could be 700 corruption and killing mobs would be pretty much an invalid way of cleansing yourself. At which point, I believe, most people would PK either in groups (of at least 2) or with a second account character being somewhere near to kill the Red one and get its loot.

Post by Mag7spy on 2022-09-06 18:21:02

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Post by Dizz on 2022-09-06 19:19:46

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Post by Condemort on 2022-09-06 19:26:51

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Post by Dygz on 2022-09-06 20:37:20

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