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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-30 22:48:49
I guess it comes down to subjective definitions of what a raid is. I see it as a big group of people working towards one goal in one place against, most of the time, one target. It could be a small boss with spells that divide you into small groups or make you move around the room (ff14/wow style afaik), it could be a huge boss that you just unleash all your spells onto (L2 style), it could be the things you've described where particular members of the raid gotta do some particular action to progress the farm, or ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-30 23:01:53
Taverns will be within player freeholds and those are pvp-free zones. And I'd hope Intrepid gives us an ability to throw people out of our freeholds so you could ban PKers from your establishment. Dunno about node-based taverns though.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-30 23:27:36
Yes, and in at least 2 of those players can lose a ton of their shit. And if they lose, there's a high chance of them leaving. And soon enough you won't have anyone in the game left to lose. Should we try saving the game from inevitable death or is it ok to just let it live for a few months and become the new NW (even if NW's death didn't necessarily come from the same source)? Or do you think that all casual players will never interact with the caravan system or will never live in a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 00:09:01
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans#Caravan_destruction https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_sieges#Node_destruction Both of those are objective-based pvp events. Both of them lead to resource loss in the case of a loss. Both of those will most likely have a decent amount of player resources. And depending on respawn mechanics during both events, any casual player might keep repeatedly dying which will decay their gear, so they'll be losing mats that way too (gear degradation quote is 64th reference on the caravan page).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 00:36:25
In L2 you'd assess your enemy's power lvl by just seeing their gear and later on by knowing their reputation. There was also the status of "Hero" which also make your character shine very brightly. You'd get that status by being the best pvper in your class, based on 1v1 arena pvp ladder. Though quite often guilds would just move points around from one member to another to grab that status for some of their more prominent members. But that's when the reputation would come in. If you've seen the Hero doing great in the arena, you'd know that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 02:05:52
I think studios just haven't tried different approaches to action-based mmo pve. Though I did like pve in B&S, even if I hadn't reached any big scale raids (if there are any, I don't really know). We would only know if the cup will overfill once someone tries to push it to its limits. And I'm pretty sure no one has tried yet because it's too risky, and we currently live in the age of no risk. The sheer fact that Steven decided to make something that goes against the current trends so much is the proof to that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 02:10:03
Played it for 12 years. Was a Hero a few times, but never on huge servers, so don't think it really counts. And yes, that glow got a bit dimmer in later updates cause people complained about it being waaaay too bright Yeah, transmog messes up the visual assessment completely. But Ashes will have an icon that gives you a rough idea of what your target is wearing, so there's at least that.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 02:25:37
thinking that TL will be challenging I'm jk, I hope it's fun, but I hiiighly doubt it'll be anywhere near wow/ff14 complexity. And that is exactly why I suggested Shadow of the Colossus-type pve raids. Or something like the skeleton centipede from SAO. A yuuuge boi that has several points of contact with a ton of players. Add environmental hazards for difficulty, add some cool 3d spells where you might have to do a proper dodge or run to a proper "hole in the wall of fire". Now I obviously haven't participated in the "proper difficult pve" so I'm ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 03:15:30
Most likely my main reason would be to remove someone from a farming spot (if there are any in the game). Outside of that prooobably some resources? Though I feel like I'd rather spend time farming money to buy those or just farm the resource itself. And then if someone's there farming it already - I PK them for the right to farm it.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 03:32:36
I guess this will always be the case if you're trying to purely overwhelm your players. I haven't played MH, but I'd assume that the same concept applies to Souls games, where sooner or later they'll be beat by naked dudes running with sticks, which means that no matter how difficult the action-based encounter is - they'll beat it sooner or later in the most ridiculous way possible. But I think at that point we're having a discussion of what's fun and engaging. Obviously there's people who're ready to bash their heads against bosses in both Souls games and ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 13:23:29
You can just post your own discussion, like I did.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 13:32:50
I was thinking about what action combat has that tab doesn't and the main 3 things I could come up with is verticality, precision aiming and action dodges. Are there any tab games that utilize those mechanics? Can you think up any more features that can only work in action combat? Cause I think I can come up with a few intricate boss encounters that use all three of those across all types of classes, though I'm not sure if I'd be able to make hundreds of unique fights with them. But then again, outside of now infamously awesome ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 14:35:23
Isn't GW2 the poster child of "hybrid" combat? So I'd imagine there's some overlap of abilities/actions between the two systems. Are there any purer tab games that utilize action dodge as a general mechanic and not as smth class-based?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 14:44:01
To me this is a Necro
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 18:01:32
Well yeah, that's exactly what I was doing in my head, but I was trying to figure out what kind of boss could I come up with that would illustrate AC's features the best, which is why I asked about what those features are, outside of the things I've listed. My thought process started out from vague basic mechanics which would then be supported by the detailed combat system changes, when required. But to know what the basics are - you gotta look at what action combat does that tab doesn't. Which was my point exactly. If there's barely ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-31 18:06:00
I mean, they can just stand there, let you kill them and become Red and then let you get fucked by that corruption. That's the 3rd choice a victim has and if anything that's a stronger choice than fighting back.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-01 03:01:32
Ok, I shouldn't have said "just stand there". They'll just continue doing whatever it is they were doing. The same thing you came there to do and would be trying to fight over. Except they wouldn't fight back in hopes that you gonna kill them and become red. So your choice is to either share the resource/mobs or to go red. I've had many such cases in L2, when some dude didn't want to give up a farming spot but also didn't fight back when I attacked him.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-01 14:42:14
We don't know whether it interrupts or not. We also don't know CD on gathering abilities, so if there's none - your target could just immediately restart gathering. And in the case of farming mobs you'd have to outdps them to get the loot so there's that too.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-01 18:11:37
While I agree with what Hailee said, this kind of "balancing" was present in L2's updates over a decade ago. Except it was a choice. You're enchanting your class skills? You can add pvp dmg, base dmg or some other horizontal enchant (usually elemental). So I don't see why Intrepid couldn't have one of the options for skill point attribution be "this skill hits stronger in pvp". And now instead of changing a whole damn class, you give players the option for what they want to excel at in the game. Here's a crusty video showing the process (it's ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 14:15:38
It's good then that Ashes is a pvx game, where each of those tiers of pve will be fought over for in pvp, and whoever was better in pvp can claim the better gear and now be marginally better in the next fight. And if Intrepid manage to make a balanced pve world, instead of "farm this one boss to literally always be better and stronger", then we'll have situations where several groups of people can ascend through gear tiers through pvp with each other, while also catching up to other people who went up, because there's several ways ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 14:19:36
I think you two just have difference views on RPing. I like having one character that is playing the role that I want to play. And I stick to that character and his role for a long time. You seem to like trying out different roles. Both playstyles are RPing in a Game, and both styles are valid. And some games encourage your style (FF14), while other games encourage one character style (L2).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 14:48:09
We need a contrarian mmo! (if there isn't one already) Healer's healing depends on his dps. Tank's tanking depends on him buffing everyone else. DPS' damage depends on how much damage they themselves took. The fight interaction would be smth like this: the healer class DPSes the boss, which cuts off chunks and sprays blood from the boss opposite to Healer's location Whoever stands opposite the Healer gets mob guts and blood all over them, which agroes the boss onto them DPS classes would have to keep their position opposite the healer, while healer's gotta move himself due to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 15:50:52
Yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about FF11. Wish I'd played it back then.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 16:07:48
Iirc you yourself said that L2 is one of the best pvp mmos out there. And that shit is so tab that you even have to ta b p the ground to move. The combat was really fast too and knowledge of class matchups led to an advantage in a fight, so it could be argued that skill mattered in pvp, even if it wasn't necessarily mechanical (though considering the "untarget" abilities, you sometimes had to click where you opponent was quickly, otherwise you'd die in 2 hits, so that's soooomewhat mechanical?).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 16:23:44
Yes, there is https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Collision
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-02 16:26:43
And as much as I agree with what Steven says, I also want this game to survive for longer than 2 months. And usually, your casuals is what's keeping a game alive. I really hope Intrepid can satisfy as many people as they can w/o giving up their core design directions, but they'll know who and how to satisfy thanks to these kinds of discussions. And considering that testing phases access costs money, which most likely leads to a more hardcore testing audience - we wouldn't know too much of the casual POV just through testing. So this discussion ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 00:03:34
All the unobtainable skins and mounts ARE enemy mobs in the game
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 16:59:17
That whole explanation makes me wish mmos split into "pvp and pve" subgenres instead of "tab and action or hybrid" subgenres. Because that sounds like a great pve design that is utterly useless in pvp. At which point, if you wanted to have pvp in the game and make gear variability important there too - you'd have to make a separate set of gear for that. And I feel like if at least a few companies risked a good pvp game back in the WoW days, where the world would stay persistent, while player power would be semi-equalized with ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 17:43:52
L2's pve was the biggest gearcheck though. There were pretty much 0 gameplay mechanics to do while fighting, so it was just a dps check which came from gear. And later on even when there were some mechanics, the boss itself still was just a thiccque HP piñata that required you to have as best of a gear set as possible so that you wouldn't die due to running out on mp on your supports. And that was mainly done because L2 gear was universal so you'd use it in both pve and pvp. Adding pve mechanics to that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 18:29:32
Have never even heard of it in my corner of the internet. Did it flop so hard that no one else even attempted to make another mmo in the same "genre"? edit: looked into it. Looks like it suffered the usual fate of old mmos w/o billions of dollars of support. Concept seems great and looks like Ashes will have some similar mechanics of player agency. And as one of the steam reviews pointed out, Ashes will also have one of the biggest issues with such a game - days/weeks/months of work can be destroyed within a day. So ...