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Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 19:27:58
I dunno how DAOC was, but from all the other pvp mmorpgs I've seen they usually suffer from bots/p2w/exploits/etc on release and then rarely fix it. And even if they do fix it, it's usually too late. I'm not saying that they'll ever have more players than smth like wow or ff14, but as you said yourself, there's at least a million people ready to try out a mmorpg (even if they didn't call it that) with pvp in it. And even NW got killed by the same issues as all those other older pvp mmos. 20 fucking years, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 19:37:16
Yeah, I know it's not as pvp as Ashes or older mmos, but it was still advertised as "mmo with pvp" iirc. And even with a $40 price it got 1 mil on release. And I'm sure if Amazon had not fucked up pretty much every single fucking thing they could've possibly fucked up - the game would've lasted way longer and would've had at least a few hundred thousand active players. Which is why Intrepid gotta iron out as many kinks as they can before release, considering that their pvp is harsher so it's gonna be a tougher ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 19:47:00
Which is why we're long overdue a paradigm shift. But it's so risky to do, moneywise, that no one even attempts it. And the ones who even try going for smth pvp-centric, usually go for nostalgia-inspired games, instead of trying to come up with a new system where owpvp might work in everyone's favor (if that is even possible obviously).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 20:32:37
Oh, apparently Shadowbane also had a good gear balance for pvp. It's a shame that it had a ton of reasons for failure though could've supported this genre direction at least a bit more.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 21:07:22
Well yeah, this is just a subjective preference. I personally consider the system where you change your gear every 2 lvls trash. Or the system where you need some exact super powerful gear in order to even try and clear some content (pve or pvp), to me, is also trash. I understand that my view of mmos is very skewed because of L2, and on top of that I might be somewhat of a contrarian that just hates everything that's popular - but I just prefer L2's gear system to most other systems I've seen so far. I guess ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 21:09:46
I wasn't talking just about action combat mmos. And imo you can still RP as your class, because I doubt that irl you're an assassin that strikes everyone's back or a renowned magician that can create lighting out of nothing. But I understand that our views on RP are different so I won't really argue that point with you. Ashes is already shifting the MMORPG paradigm in several ways.[/quote] And that is exactly why I'm interested in it (on top of it being "L3").
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 21:19:48
VRMMORPG is just action combat though well, in most cases that's been shown anime/novels.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 21:55:46
Yeah, I know, which is why I defend Steven's design choices as much as I can. I can come up with additional systems that might be better for casuals, but I still try to keep the core idea in mind. And Ashes' success (or lack of) will determine for me if pvp mmos are as viable as I believe they are. But I do want the game to succeed as much as possible and that would require at least some casual-friendly systems. And AoC already has a few of those, but they'll have to get tested to prove if ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 22:25:28
One of my biggest dreams for an mmo is a particle-based spell-crafting mmo. The balance would be around character stats (that you yourself allocate), which would determine your range of control when in comes to spell-crafting. But the main point would be that you can create your own spells. I feel like UE5 could manage to support such a design idea and make it look really cool, but I dunno if there's development tools that can streamline the coding process for it. And depending on the coding part, you could determine which combat system would fit the design the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-03 22:58:15
And in order to address these kinds of issues, I've presented a few design additions that would keep those who dislike losing too much from being forever losers. Even if I do agree with the "suck it up and move on" mentality, I can still understand those who harshly disagree with it and/or consider it bully-like. I've suggested a "universal basic income" system that would support all the time-casual players, while also bringing them closer to hardcore dudes, on top of giving some cosmetic rewards for said hardcore players. I've suggested a fairly soft gear decay system that would ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 00:51:05
Yeah, it's definitely a hard thing to get used to if you've never played with/liked it. Though to me it always meant speed of actions, because my left hand was always on the skills and at the ready instead of just movement.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 00:59:32
L2 was definitely leaning more towards pvp than pve in its pvx mix. The pve itself didn't have any real mechanics, while it constantly had pvp for itself. And pvp side had ffa pvp guild wars, castle sieges, fortress sieges (in later updates), a second kind of castle sieges, arena pvp that had a huuuuge influence on open world pvp, and of course pvp for the right to pve. Yes, you had karma do dissuade people from just murdering each other, but social standing was a much greater deterrent than karma ever was. And due to L2's mechanics, a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 01:52:29
You've just described L2. Steven's system is definitely closer to PvX, but L2 really wasn't. You won't be able to farm w/o fighting other people (well, in the og version that is. now it's probably an instance fest with no pvp). Even if you stayed at low lvls just gathering mats (which only came from kiling mobs and only by a special class), you'd still have to fight for them. And even if there's no more newbies on the server, the hardcore players most likely made low lvl alts that will also have better gear than you so you ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 02:04:17
Pretty much. And the higher you went, the harder those people fought over those things.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 02:55:16
200 employees is Steven's goal iirc, so I wouldn't really call it a small studio at that point. And if the game is successful enough I'd assume they'll have enough money to sustain that big of a team. And as for sandbox - nodes and sieges (both castle and node ones). Themepark - we don't really have a clue outside of "it'll have instanced dungeons that will be story related".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 04:21:51
And I, a person who pvped for every single piece of content in that game for over 12 years, am telling you that there was pvp on every corner of that game and there was enough PKing for Steven to add a system where you prevent said PKing in genocidal quantities. And by the same logic of "they wouldn't do this if they weren't trying to make this kind of game", I'd assume Steven wouldn't have added an anti-genocidal feature to L2's karma system if said system had already prevented one-sided genocides. Which it didn't. Yes, they were rare ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 13:29:45
Yeah, just like the designer of this children's toy wanted its players to put different shapes into different holes. Except he left the possibility of putting everything into the same one. Like I said, players' preferred playstyle doesn't always match with dev's content goals. And if anything, I'd say that all the people who stopped playing L2 after certain updates voted with their wallets in the same way millions of WoW players left after WoTL. I'm sure if you ask all those millions of players whether the current WoW and the vanilla expansions that they remember are the same ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 14:05:06
BDO's combat does "feel" more impactful. Be that from just fooling our brains into thinking that or if it's really as impactful as it seems, but even from a few hours that I've played of it, I loved its feeling way more than most other mmos. Obviously you want/need proper mechanics and interesting designs within your combat system, but most people will judge it in the first few hours of playing, where usually there are no interesting mechanics, so if you don't give them the feeling of "ooh, this combat feels/looks cool" - they might dislike it and disregard ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 16:49:38
Never even heard about that game, but after watching this video I now want an mmo with this kind of system even more it's pretty much what I had in mind, except mine was a bit more granular and based on your stat attribution rather than preexisting cards. And obviously making that kind of system for an mmo would be an absolute balancing and coding hell, but god damn would it be fun as hell and the most unique spell system in the genre.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 19:46:26
They have. Multiple times. Making a drawing is way faster than making a full 3d model. But yes, if you hate fomo cosmetics, the game is most definitely not for you. There's hundreds of them and they'll be all around you every hour of every day.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-04 20:35:34
So my reverse psychology tricked worked. Great.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-05 19:37:06
They have lived in L2 for its whole existence, so they definitely can. Especially if it's gonna be beneficial to all the botmakers to go all-out on bot design/coding.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-06 22:21:03
You have just created not only a daily chore, but a p2w one too, where people will just run it with huge money investments until they get OP gear. And if you exclude the Embers from the system, you've just created an even bigger rift between the time-casual players you're trying to help and the hardcore bois who not only have time to constantly run the instance, but also the in-game money to invest into it and get the OP loots. And if that dad of 20 kids, 10 dogs and 5 wives misses a day of a free ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-06 22:23:10
Ok
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-06 22:26:12
That is already the case. You'll already have to farm endgame bosses several times not to only drop some rare loot, but to then use that loot to upkeep your endgame gear. And the OE system is to push that gear even higher. And if you want to do that - there's gotta be a risk (imo). And I think there should always be a way to get your power higher, for those who want to run on that treadmill. But it should always come at a really high price, which is why I support destruction on OE fails. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-06 22:51:06
Because only 4 guilds in one Alliance and after that you'll be hitting each other with aoes in mass pvp. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alliances
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-06 23:22:45
Which is exactly why I said that imo this system (again, OE part, not enchantment overall) is meant for those who are already at the very top of progress. You either have a hard progress ceiling and lose players who want to constantly progress no matter the cost (a fairly small amount of people obviously) or you have OE fails destroying your gear, but position the very concept of OE as smth to do once you've done everything else, which will lose the people who dislike this system so much that they leave the game even w/o getting to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-07 00:03:21
If I understood your suggestion correctly, you have a theoretical ceiling to the power lvl achievable in the game, but it takes a long way and luck to get there. So in the long run the lucky people will get to the top and will forever stay there. My suggestion makes that progress harder and longer just by the fact that you'd have to double grind each step of OE if you wanted to mitigate risks. And if you set the ceiling high enough and required resources rare enough, there might be one or two people that are even ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-07 00:22:52
As a last point and just to make sure. You do know that there's basic safe level on vertical enchantment of gear AND horizontal enchantment for additional effects on gear, right? https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Enchanting And then after those things you have the concept of over enchantment where you're trying to go even further, after having already enchanted your gear both horizontally and vertically. Everything I've said was about OE and in the context of you having already done all the things you wanted to do with your gear, which imo should also be on the rarer side (at least the vertical ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-07 00:39:10
Cosmetics alone add $75 of value, so I'd think yes, $125 is just about right. Now whether I think it's worth it to get those cosmetics or that lvl of access - no. But I also don't care about cosmetics at all, so I'm not the target audience for them. Here's the breakdown of cosmetics costs. And in the future, you can buy singular cosmetics that relate to the package level (the colored dots)