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Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 03:18:53
Which is why I said that I need to do more tests, because my calculations would have to be done by myself, would take longer and might have mistakes in them so I'd have to recheck them again and again.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 03:25:35
Because I've never needed them before and then when I heard about them, all I heard was bad stuff. If, by any chance, I come to a point where I will require them, I'll think about reconsidering my views on them, but before that I'll keep saying "fuck them". And I'm fine with that, because I'd know that I achieved, whatever stage of progress I achieved, completely with my own resources/power.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 03:41:32
And all of that traction is useless if all those casual players are only interested in completely changing core design choices of the game. There's already a ton of stuff for casual players to do and the pvp system has already gotten casual-friendly changes. If that's not enough - this game might not fit their casual playstyle and that's completely ok, they have a ton of other games to go and casually play. Literally any pvp event/action can be done at any lvl. The only thing that differs is your impact on that event/action. Especially when compared to the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 03:50:53
It was more of an osmosis of information from all kinds of sources and personal conclusions made based on the things I've heard. My own experience is that of not requiring them at all to enjoy an mmo. Now obviously my preferred mmo didn't even need them in the first place, so I'm obviously biased when it comes to the topic. I've discussed this topic with people that I've played other games with (mainly one wow guy) and I saw 0 huge enough benefits for me to consider it a necessity. Then I've heard a ton of feedback from ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 15:51:32
This discussion is cool and all, but you know what Intrepid really have to do? Make their classes distinct enough to be considered classes in the current definition of what a "class" is. Btw is there even a concrete definition of what a class is supposed to be in an mmorpg? There's the general definition from the wikipedia, but I'm not sure if everyone would even agree that it totally fits the mmorpg genre. If Intrepid design their classes in such a way that a mage/tank can do some things that a mage/rogue can't - would you consider them ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 16:36:21
Yes. And to this point, @Noaani how much more info did you get from the tracker than you did from EQ's battle log? I feel like my bias might stem from my skewed L2 experience where I just had a "tracker" within the game itself, because my battle log would show dmg dealt/received and chance of debuffs on mobs (though not on all servers). And when I clicked on the mob/boss, I could see his current info (buffs, agro list, skill list). This wasn't the normal L2 experience, so I guess, in a way, I was playing with a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 16:44:24
With all the talks of "cult-like behavior" on reddit, this "write me first that you want in and then I'll tell you what you're in for" definitely doesn't help
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 18:23:27
Which is why quite often in L2 the og location-holder would flag up first. If you see a dude running to your place of farm, you'd hit him first to let him know you're ready to throw down and already have the advantage of the first hit. Though L2's ttk was way shorter than what Ashes wants to have, so it might not be as big of an issue here.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 19:34:44
Yep, sounds very much like L2's class system. @Noaani is this true?!
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 22:20:06
I wanted to know the mental taxation a raid would have on people. Even with easy pve in L2, the mental taxation of the whole process was high because you had to pvp for hours before the boss itself. And that was a single boss farm on a single day. You'd usually have several such bosses within a week, on top of all the other smaller bosses that helped you to farm gear that let you clear the epic bosses. What was you longest farm within one day? Was there ever a time where those 15h were all done ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 23:41:39
Yep. And I think alpha2 will be one of the things that helps Steven to make that call. They'll have to be a toooon of testing of all kinds of encounters and in all kinds of setups with all kinds of players. And if Steven sees that some of those encounters work out much better in the context of his vision, he should definitely go for those (imo). But only Steven himself will know which kind of encounters will fit what he wants in Ashes.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-13 23:59:18
I mean, they don't need to know how well it'll work. They need to know whether their planned pve designs will work at all. Yes, a ton of games have failed at owpvp bosses or have failed at instanced pve (for one reason or the other), but Intrepid needs to show us at least what they have in mind so that we can give some kind of feedback on it. Steven has made a ton of promises and claims, but, unless at least the base idea of those promises works on a small scale, none of them would matter ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 00:19:15
In this particular context what I meant by a content wall is making the same, or very similar, boss encounters. There's only so many "there's a boss on a flat field surrounded by mountains" encounters you can make before your players grow tired of them.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 00:30:50
I treat it the same way I do with Intrepid's intention to somehow be the best pvp mmo out there. If they wanna hit 1 in a howevermany previous attempts chances of succeeding, then why couldn't they fail with boss design so much that they hit 1 in a 100s of games that have done good pve before. As Shia said "Nothing is impossible!"
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 01:19:55
Ok, I should've said "mmo with ow pvp in it". I see their chances at succeeding the same as their chances at completely fucking up the pve part. But I believe that they can succeed at making a good mmo with owpvp, so I have to believe that there's a chance that they fuck up pve. Especially if we consider how high the standards for pve are for people like you.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 01:26:17
True. And I hope they manage to do that, because imo the pvp system is already as good as it can be and will just have to adjust some details to be its best self. So if they make the pve part of the game on the same lvl as the one you gush over, I'll be better off for it because that part of the game will keep more people playing which is good for my part of the game.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 03:34:29
And I think L2 had the best balance of the two. It just didn't go for the mechanically difficult pve in its semi-instances. Tweak a few features around those semi-instances or set them up in such ways that those people who're good at pve have a better chance of entering the location. Hell, have a difficult solo instance that rewards you the item that you then need to use in order to enter the boss room. I'd assume all the PvErs would at least enjoy the extra content. And all the "true pro top lvl" PvXers can really prove ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 04:13:28
Guess Intrepid will have to get away from the label of "a raid game". Because they can't have a gear-giving daily instance that would satiate the hunger of all the raid wanters, due to that literally destroying the economy of the game. They can't have the semi-instances that I suggested because the reward would be too limited (even though that's one of the core principles of the game). They can't have complex owpvp bosses because, as you said, they'll never get killed. So the only solution is to either have instances w/o gear, and have all your pvers be ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 15:22:12
My logic was based on your "20h of raiding a week" suggestion. I guess EQ's instances work differently or maybe I misunderstood how they worked in wow/ff14/l2, because I'm used to "instance" being a thing where you enter it, clear it and you're done. You could then repeat it immediately for more loot. And you could repeat it ad nauseam, until you get literally all of the possible gear from it. And yes, those would be the party-centered instances, so they're usually way smaller in scale and difficulty (though not necessarily). I haven't run raid-sized instances in wow or ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 15:39:23
Definitely hope they have some towers. Cruma and ToI were my favorite places to grind.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 16:11:17
We have yet to see any real augments. The "rush TP" is cute and all, but we have no clue what kind of impact all the other augment schools will/can have. What if a whole party has tank secondaries? Would one dude with healer secondary be enough to keep them healed up because they already have defensive augments? Would a fighter/tank be enough to tank content if the whole party has bard secondaries that can decrease dmg output of their targets? There's a ton of possible combos that might lead to classes having the same impact as they did ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-14 20:47:08
I meant it more as a "that's the only fucking example we have so far, outside of the obvious plain "you can add elements to your abilities"".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-15 02:04:02
Wasn't that an issue in BDO at some point (maybe still)? Where people would punish their attackers by removing gear so that the attacker got more karma. This kind of mechanic is a real slippery slope. You'd probably have to disable gear switching when you're in combat, but that brings some problems too.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-15 14:42:18
As far as I know that is the usual thinking when people hear "instanced dungeon". And the gear connotations that come with it. Which is why everyone who dislikes that mechanic is so against it. I'd personally be fine with that. All we have to know now is whether all the masses that played wow/ff14 and enjoyed raiding would be fine with that, cause afaik raiding in those games gave you BiS, so I'm not sure if our oldschool preferences (cause EQ2 is most definitely oldschool at this point) would match the current mmo culture. When it comes to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-15 17:39:59
Here's a runthrough of the Tower (you can mute the audio). And as for instanced dungeons. They won't be repeatable and will mainly concentrate on the story side of the game, so I wouldn't really equate the two.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-15 20:24:13
Yep, that's the exact description of what Tower of Insolence represented.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-15 23:28:39
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-16 03:34:48
Yeah, I was thinking more in terms of this kind of line of thinking: "There are instanced raids in this game but they don't give me BiS like I'm used to. I dunno if like that". In my eyes not having some feature is better than having a gimped one. I hope most people don't agree with me on this and they'll be fine with getting non-BiS gear through weekly instances, like how your circle of players would. I could see the discouragement for that being anti-zerg mechanics that start their effect from the outskirts of the boss location ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-16 13:25:10
The boss could maybe account for "zerging". So if it's a one-party boss, yet it gets attacked by 2 parties and gets its anti-zerg mechanics enabled, the markers could be asterisked with a "anti-zerg was enabled", so if the system that's tracking the markers sees that only one group has gone past some point of the dungeon, it would then lower the difficulty a bit. Obviously this kind of stuff would have to be properly designed and remain hidden so that people wouldn't know how to exploit it immediately, but I still think it could be possible. And L2 ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-16 18:02:13
Limited to whatever the gear's style is. Don't wanna see some neon green wooden shields or whatever.