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Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 16:41:17
Dygz, will you play Ashes if by any chance Steven decides to have the corruption values be not as high as you think they'll be and PKing will be more prevalent than just a few kills on the whole server here and there? Cause from all of your comments (which are mainly the same ones, but still) you seem like a person that would really not like a game where you can be killed at any time, yet Ashes definitely seems to be that kind of game (even if the penalties stay harsh).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 16:55:54
I mean, barely any of the things OP described were "easy". But even if some of them are, if it's a guild - it's easier to just farm the resources. If it's a couple of guys just trying to earn some "ez loots", then yeah they might be able to do that a few times and get away with it (that is if they're lucky), but after that - good luck farming back all of that XP debt. If anything, I'd say it's easier to level up a gathering alt and just have yourself a character that can gather ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 17:02:07
Then those one-offs will happen a few times for each person and then everyone will just return to normal marketing existence. But I somehow highly doubt that: it'll be even possible to do with high value resources (cause guilds) a lot of people even attempt this (cause trading is just less risky) the gatherers won't ever fight back and prevent the "griefing"
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 17:05:01
Yes, non-forced attacks won't flag you against non-combatants.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 17:11:27
You're forgetting about the "PK count". If you have 10 kills on your character, your next PK will give you way more corruption than your first PK did. So you'll have to die several times, have even bigger XP debt and add yet another PK to the counter. Also, I'd hope Intrepid can implement a "check" of sorts that prevents friends from abusing the BH system. The easiest way to do that would just be "if you claim the same bounty (this being the PK player) - your bounty reward is reduced" and make that shit inverse scalable.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 17:19:45
Well, I was talking in the context of "high value resources gathering", which would require a long time to level the character's profession (and probably adventure lvl too), and will most likely be done by people in guilds or big friend groups. And in that context, just killing the gatherer and its protectors would already no longer be "easy". And it'd have to be done by bigger groups than just "a couple of friends", at which point it's no longer griefing (which is the OP's main concern). And if instead of trying to farm some valuable gatherers you just ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 17:32:03
Yeah, and I countered this interaction in my first post here. If it's a highly valuable resources - they'll be protected (even w/o considering other players' freeholds). If it's random gatherers running around and you just kill them periodically - you'll still suffer the corruption penalties and lose more time recovering from them than you would've if you'd just gotten a gatherer friend or an alt. And considering that freeholds are account-wide - your alt would have that house too, so you yourself would be more protected from the attacks OP described, because you'd be able to run away ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 17:50:23
IS could prevent guild/ally-mates from BHing each other (I'd support it). And if you're only killing one-two people once a few days or once a week - that ain't griefing, That's just participating in the game's systems. Griefing would be standing between the node/freeholds and the gathering/farming spots and literally PKing every player going through. And corruption is there to prevent exactly that kind of behavior. And if more casually-inclined players complain that they get killed once in a while in Ashes - that's on them. They should've known what they were getting themselves into. They should've gotten into ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 18:05:59
The more PKers, the more BHs, the less PKers, the less victims. It's all a part of the system and working as intended. I really don't see this as a problem.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 18:51:43
True, those things will have to be proven and tested.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 19:54:29
I dunno how exactly they'll have it in Ashes, but in L2 it wasn't just what you were wearing, but the gear in your inventory too. So the corrupted players might still lose their good stuff on death.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 20:26:42
Death penalties page says this " A corrupt (red player) suffers penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant, and has a chance to drop any carried/equipped items based on their current corruption score. This includes: Dropping weapons and gear. "
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 20:33:56
They said we can't put freeholds too close to dungeons/roads, so it won't be as easy. But it's also a normal mechanic. If you want to go into that controlled dungeon - find another guild that wants it too and go kick the controller's ass.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-22 23:16:56
Again the quote went "If you go on a murder spree and you have 10 pks under your belt then you might start feeling a significant dampening to your skill effects against other players." This means that on the lower PK counts, the stat dampening effects are either miniscule or just insignificant. Which was my entire point. I didn't misrepresent anything. I was just pointing out that they haven't tested it, hence the vague language. But even before testing, Steven's stance is "PKing is meant to be fun in limited amounts, which is why your first few kills won't ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 00:29:14
And this is why I'm interested in Ashes in the first place. Lineage 2 was one of the best pvx games imo and these days people would 100% call it a purely pvp game, even though 95% of your gameplay was just mob grind.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 01:32:56
I'm just curious, how would you control that? Do you mean that you would just switch your daily gameplay goals if you see that there's PvP/PKing going on in the location where you wanted to go on that particular day? Or is it some other way?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 01:46:17
This will highly depend on how Intrepid decides to design endgame gameplay loops. If the only thing I can do every day for 10h+ is grinding mobs or gather stuff or doing menial quests in the open world - I'm most likely gonna pvp people doing the same thing. And when a pvp-disliking person gets to the same lvl of progress where the only thing they can do are those activities - they gonna come across a tooooon of pvpers, which, just as you said, would've been at that lvl of progress for quite some time so they'd most ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 02:34:49
There's a high chance that most people at the top of any gameplay ladder (adventure/artisan/faction lvls) will be playing in groups/guilds. If one of the group decides to PK someone, the group can go grind some mobs to remove their corruption. If they see a random player approaching their group, they'll assume it's a BH hunting their red player. They'll throw a few hits in his face (or use a ton of super weak abilities) to bring his HP bar down to mid-low decay stage and let the PKer finish him off w/o a problem (maybe even healing the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 02:36:52
That is very true. And I do hope that a ton of PvE guilds will provide safe haven for all the pvp-dislikers out there. But it'll be on those players to find and join such guilds, instead of complaining that in a game with owpvp they get hit and sometimes even killed.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 02:43:31
It wasn't me who said that. Steven himself says "you might start feeling those effects after 10 kills". So again, I am not misrepresenting anything, especially considering that there's literally nothing to represent because the game doesn't exist yet and there're no facts to point to.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 02:54:27
Uhm, how exactly is having 10 PKs not the same as killing 10 people? Each kill of those 10 people gives you a PK. You could kill 10 dudes with an aoe and immediately gain a shitton of corruption and feel noticeable effects of the stat dampening penalty or you could kill 1 dude every hour and after 7-8h maaaybe start noticing some small effects, but nothing substantial, and after gaining 10 PK - feel some stuff. I really dunno why you think I'm misinterpreting this mechanic. edi: added details that forgot to mention at first
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 03:01:18
But definitely forbid healing bosses, cause seeing Antharas' hp go back to full from <50% was really painful and all just because one enemy bishop managed to hide in the corner of the cave.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 03:22:23
I mean, the whole discussion and the quote itself was about corruption and PKs. If I my words were torn out of context in which they were, then I dunno what to say.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 03:25:10
I mean, true, but outside of that there was a ton of other times when open world bosses got healed by a random healer just for shits and giggles. And as much as I laughed at it back then and would laugh at it now, I highly doubt people would like that lol. And I'd say my nicknames from back in the day, but I mainly played on russian private servers, so I doubt anyone here would know them.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 03:40:35
Steven has also said that he doesn't want to prevent players from having fun PKing others, but he does want to stop them from killing too many, which is why corruption in Ashes has the added effect of stat dampening, when in L2 karma had none of that. So I wouldn't necessarily take Steven's words as gospel. Yes, he's making the game and the final word on features and system will always come from him, but he's just another player with his own definitions for things, because mmo community never really came together to set strict rules and definitions ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 04:15:17
We used to PK any healer-looking players on sight, just because there was a heal that restored % of hp instead of direct values, so even one cast could fuck up our farm so it was easier to just kill anyone approaching the boss than risk it getting healed.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 04:23:42
Here's the "not to prevent players from having fun" quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP-lOFzYkCM&t=2311s at 38:40
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 06:35:41
Yet one of its deterring mechanisms start to work only around 10th murder. Doesn't quite feel like that good of a deterrent then. And for you own sake I hope that the game turns out how you think it will, cause I know I'll be just fine if I won't be able to PK a few people once a week, but you'd obviously leave the game if you get killed a few too many time (of which are not even that many). I'm sure there's way more people who're close to your line of thinking than to mine, so ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 07:48:33
I got this screenshot for this exact comment. This is how it worked in L2 https://imgur.com/a/UkDXZq5 Here in the social tab you see the line of "Karma... PvP/PK" The pvp counter ticks up when you kill a combatant. PK counter ticks up when you kill a non-combatant. Karma goes up after every non-combatant kill and gets multiplied by the PK counter (not a direct multiplier, but a weighed ratio or however it's called). If you have 0 PK count, you might get 300 Karma for killing a dude on your lvl. And that kill would give you 1 PK. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-04-23 13:19:01
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I left after High Five (played for a ton of years on private HFs though). I tried finding info on Steven's last Chronicle/patch played, but couldn't, and didn't manage to catch him online on discord to ask him (he didn't respond to my pm), so I dunno what his main reference would be. But from what I've heard, he's played Aion and played AA when that came out. So depending on how much Aion he played, he might've left around C6 or maybe ~HF. So in theory he's closer to the old scaling. ...