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Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 15:14:13
Gonna play it till it dies if I like the final design of the game. Right now there's been a few design directions that I don't quite prefer. If Intrepid continues to move in those directions - I'll stop playing once my alpha2 bundle gametime runs out.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 15:18:58
I'm the same. And I'm so much like that that it often frustrates me to no end when people don't know literally anything about the game they're playing. And don't even start me on the people that have paid money for AoC's bundles, yet got 0 fucking clue about the core pillars of the game's design. It just doesn't compute in my mind how someone can be like that.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 15:34:45
I said in some old thread that L2's low lvl gatherers (and sometimes even other classes) were valuable because mobs on lower lvls would have better low tier mat drops than on higher lvls. And considering how crafting worked in L2, even after a year those same low lvls would be valuable. Maybe a bit less so, because new mobs appeared and gave another way to farm the same mats, but considering that most people usually just leveled up instead of trying to stay at the same stage of progress - the low lvls were still appreciated. Now this ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 19:40:44
Here's one of the best examples of low lvl "gathering" against just drops in L2. Left side is just dropping a t1 mat, that's used in a ton of recipes, and right side is L2's gathering that only one class can do. As you can see, there's ways to farm the resource at pretty much all lvls, with the best mobs being at higher lvls, but it is waaaay better to just Spoil mobs at lower lvls because they bring in so much more of the resource. This way even low lvl gatherers can make a ton of money, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 20:04:30
Mainly the open seas change, while also reassuring that the corruption system is insanely harsh. I personally would prefer if the corruption system was properly balanced against the BH system, with several additions that would make the overall system have a more positive feedback loop of victim/killer interaction. As Azherae pointed out, the "pvp" games with a similar corruption system rarely get a ton of pvp already and Steven made the system even harsher (not sure if harsher than BDO's, but definitely L2's). All while pushing forced flagging zones into the game's design. That kinda rubs me the wrong ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 20:31:16
Did you know that it was a p2w mmo when you were downloading it though? Or were you just scrolling through phone games, liked the icon and didn't read anything at all about the game itself?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 20:48:40
Yeah, which is why I said that they'd need to design the system in such a way that conceptually it could work like that, but be deeper and better. In other words, I just want any potential newcomer to be able to get some early money through whichever means they prefer. If the only way to make money on a well-established high lvl server (both artisans and adventurers) is to just do quests and maybe farm mobs - I feel like the whole design of the artisan system will have failed. Do you agree with that kind of design ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 20:55:02
Imagine the chases!! The zeroing on the ship by several BH ships from several directions and the potential to evade their pursuit by the corrupted ship. Or hell, do smth like Sea of Thieves' cloud effects, where everyone sees location of some thing from miles away, and make that "thing" the corrupted ship. Don't even need to tie BHs into this (though they could probably have better or more timely updates on the movements of the corrupted ship, while the cloud effects would just indicate a general location and would get updated once every 2-3 mins). The potential could've ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 23:12:31
But wouldn't AoC's artisanship already be niche? I'm sure that anyone and everyone would be able to "just cut a tree" or "just pick up a plant", but I'd hope that the system would HIGLY encourage those kinds of actions to be done by specialized artisans because the benefit would be higher. And so you'd have the most basic stuff getting value from the sheer amounts of demand for it (basic trees/rocks used for sieges in huge amounts, and stuff like that), while anything of a bit higher quality would require specialization. And your progress within the specialization would ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 23:39:57
No, we agree. I'd assume that what I described would probably best apply to low tiers and above, while everyone would only be able to do basic tier of gatherables, if not specced into that tree/branch. Though, I guess, that goes directly against the "lootboxiness" of rocks, because if anyone can hit most rocks and some of those rocks can have more valuable resources - you have yourself a ton of people that could potentially mine a ton of valuable resources, even w/o leveling up their artisanry. And if you don't give those people the valuable part of the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-10 23:49:05
Did those solutions include the "high specc dude literally can't farm low tier mat or it's so inefficient that only griefers would try" one? Because I feel like if the artisan system just consisted of a bunch of L2-like vertical lines, with high lvls having either no access or worse yield to the low tiers, the inherent nicheness of artisan classes would work in favor of such a system. And the basic resources could be farmed by all, but they'd also give the smallest return on time investment, because they'd be literally "a thing you do while you're bored". ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 00:08:33
I'd personally like those quests to be upper limits to progress of your artisan profession, but also a reset of your knowledge. Before the first quest you can do the absolute basic stuff in any profession. This ability stays with you forever First quest gives you the ability to specialize in whichever profession you want and also has a stage 2-3 if you want to specialize in several professions from the same branch of artisanry. And this quest allows you to work with t1-2 stuff Second quest allows you to work with t2-4 stuff, but you "forget" how to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 00:10:41
A full range of difficulty across all player sizes, but with waaaay more really difficult ones than easy ones.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 00:39:15
I meaaaaaaaaan, unless we go the Dygz/Noaani route and completely disregard even the probability of L2 being called a PvX game - L2's "gathering" was exactly that The "spoiler" class was gathering its mats off of mobs and mobs only. I'm guessing FFXI's gathering was available to more classes than just one, so L2's system is even more restrictive than the one you're used to from ff.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 12:49:49
This stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgBQ1Vvx5HI Low floor, high ceiling. Abilities do dmg, but counterabilities and mechanical skill can mitigate that, so a high skill player can wipe the floor with a newb. Tight scaling. Gear tiers are only a few % of power away from each other. And I'd prefer if we'd get all our basic archetype abilities before lvl 25 and then would only need to augment them. And those lvl25 abilities would be hitting even lvl50 people for full dmg, but, as I said in the first point, the mitigation (most likely from augments) would limit that dmg to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 12:58:54
Lagfest because it's a game from 2004 running on an unoptimized for mass battles engine. Intrepid are supposedly countering all of those issues, so AoC's mass pvp should look much better.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 16:31:41
This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYpkDaodN8 Full 8v8 proper balancing. Ideally 1 of each archetype in the party. Solo and party resurrection spells, which lead to 3++minute long pvps between equally skilled/geared groups. Oh, and I couldn't give fewer shits about arena stuff. The only arena I care about is 1v1 intraclass one.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 16:40:56
I'd prefer a pyramid-like structure going from basic to top lvl gatherables, with threat lvls going up from lowest to highest and gatherables' amount/respawns going from largest to smallest. In other words, funnel the players in order to create the friction and push people to party up. You should always be able to gather stuff solo, but if you have the means or the desire - you should be able to party up and go explore the more dangerous places (both in terms of potential pvp and the environmental hardships).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 16:42:17
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nameplate
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 16:59:04
You can't go prone and might not even be able to crouch. Unless there's some pokemon tall grass in the game - ya ain't hiding.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 17:04:15
Outside of giving it several peaks (guess that'd stop it from being a pyramid though), how would you keep the funnel function that supports the goal of soft friction? You could have alternative crafting mats that you can use interchangeably in recipes, but then I'd assume you have each of the sources be smaller or rarer. Or do you disagree with the funnel function as a whole? And if yes, then how'd you link gathering to soft friction, if even do that at all?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 17:17:24
This was taken from a competition and I used it as just an easy example of how I see party pvp going. But to me, party pvp always means high energy high stakes action. You're either fighting for loots or for a boss or for the rights to pass a road. I'm sure people will have some super casual organized fights, but I'm not really interested in those. It's not necessarily that I disagree with it, it's just that my pov is completely different from wow-like arena stuff or just incomplete group gatherings. I'm waaay too used to having ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 17:31:14
But I don't think we know if that applies to literally everything, right? I don't think they've mentioned if we'll have any kinds of rare variations of gatherables that would only be harvestable by higher lvl artisans. And would a solution of "gather different" rather than "more" work? So that a lvl5 lumberjack fells a tree and gets 5 wood, while lvl20 gets 3 proper wood and 5 bark and lvl50 gets 2 pristine wood, 4 pure bark and 3 sap. Any recipe that needs wood can use all those versions of wood, with slightly different results in the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 17:58:44
Could the world manager potentially solve this? We know that nodes will have tasks that will probably have a few of the usual "bring 10 bear asses" or "bring 20 wood" type of quests. And we know that node buildings will require a ton of basic mats to build up. Could the WM control those quest and building values in order to keep up the demand at a steady lvl. And once the WM sees that players are starting to build ships/siege mechs/caravans in big numbers, it could potentially lessen the system-based demand to counterweigh the player-based one rising. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 18:35:52
A proper example would require a ton of info that we don't have. Amounts of rocks/trees/plants per node. Their respawn timers. The amount of mats required for node buildings, plain caravans and ships and any other potentially large uses of basic mats. I saw it as smth like this. WM looks at how many basic mats get harvested in a period of time (say a day). It tracks those mats' usage, be it purely storage or crafting or node donations. At the start of the next period the WM determines whether too much of some basic mat has been ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 18:38:43
Nah, don't think there's any mmos that have tried a purely pvp gameplay approach. Or at least I've never heard of one.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 19:07:10
Doesn't mortal have mobs? But yeah, pretty much any mmo that has open world pvp would be a pvx mmo. Oh wait, I guess Planetside 2 is the closest thing to a really pvp mmo, cause iirc there's no environmental stuff there (unless I'm forgetting or they've changed smth). Foxhole might be seen as a pvp mmo too, cause it's a completely player-created world and any environment hazards come directly from other players. But neither of those are rpgs, even though they have ranks and "classes" which could kinda be seen as parts of an rpg gameplay. And, if ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 19:22:51
This would put strain on the land management system which supposedly has its own drawbacks. And the wider this info spreads the more strain there'll be across several nodes, so all the players that need those mats or their own craft would be put against the "abusers" during gathering. Which is exactly the soft friction that Steven wants. And like I said, the system would control the award to be just a bit higher than the local market price, but transferring mats would still always bring more benefits (especially if brought to far lands). And if the info is ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 19:29:19
This is another part of the equation that's unknown right now. We got no clue what the quest reward structure will be. The only other way to get currency is to sell certificates. We know that we'll have taxes, so that might be one of the main currency sinks, but outside of that we don't really know where we'd spend our money. And because of that it's hard to properly imagine what kind of rewards would these tasks provide, which would not go directly against other means of getting an equal reward.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-11-11 20:01:38
But could then the player reward be a part of the node's reward? So maybe a small tax reduction or some discount on services, or maybe a buff from an npc that helps you do smth better. In other words, smth less tangible, but still appreciated and potentially useful. And as for AoC's economy being already designed, I could see that being true, but my point was more about the fact that I, personally, can't come up with a good enough justification for my suggestions w/o knowing those details. And I've rarely gone too deep into design learning to ...