NO PVP on the Freehold Please!

Azherae wrote: »

Everything I find indicates that this didn't actually 'work' in AA.

Yeah, I haven't gone deep into AA's info, but a glance at a farming video implied that there were non-pvp areas and pvp-areas. And majority of people filled up the non-pvp areas first, until they were completely full and later on players had to go to the pvp areas to set up their farms.

So if Intrepid has pvp on farms at all times, then it's even more hardcore than AA was in this respect. Which, if true, would just confuse me, considering all the things we've heard from Steven (not like this would be the first time though ).

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As someone whose boarders have been stepped over for no fucking reason - no the absolute majority of people could not fucking care less about random travelers minding their own business. We're not moving our freehold to pvp somewhere, we're just doing our own shit.

The ones who would suffer from freeholder pvp attacks is a traveler who for some dumb reason came right up to the freehold. And even then only the few uber pvpers who just happened to be at their freehold would even think of attacking the traveler.

If you want to attack me on my freehold - you deserve to get sniped by me, while I step in and out of my safe zone.

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Did AA have food buff or anything of the sort? And what was its value, if any. I might be wildly wrong in my assumption here, but I was imagining smth like "you gotta find the seeds for the plant; grow the plant properly; harvest the plant properly; use it properly - and you have yourself a top lvl food buff item that sells for a ton". Outside of maybe the lest step, all that stuff gotta be done outside (well, excluding flowers or something else that can be grown indoors).

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Except it would be for a professional harvester. That's their whole gameplay, not the transportation of good. If players can completely prevent you from participating in your preferred gameplay - that's bad, in the context of Intrepid trying to appease some casuals (which they said they want to do).

The freehold owner can just ask for help with the transportation when they need it, because it's a one time thing, rather than a potentially prolonged process of whatever the freehold-based professions entail.

Now, obviously there's a chance that nothing you can do on your freehold takes you a long time and the solution to my problem could be solved the same way I mentioned, but then I'd assume Ashes will lose its casual audience even faster than it already will. The pvp on your freehold would probably speed that up a bit, but at that point it wouldn't matter on the big scale.

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But there were non-pvp farming zones, right? Maybe Steven's planning to have the in-node housing to serve as that, if you can do all the same stuff there as you can on your freehold.

I feel like AA's separation between housing and the farm is also important, because there you saw them as two entities with different mechanics, while Ashes will have freehold that serves as your main hub, so to me it seems weird to have a separation of mechanics for a single thing.

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Was this coral more expensive than other stuff, considering that it had special requirements? What I'm trying to get at, is that there's gonna be some ultimate top lvl farmable item that's gonna be the most valuable thing that you can get from farming. It's gonna be at the very top of the farming profession and all the farming players will be leveling up to start working on it.

And if after all of that work they are prevented from getting that item, or, even worse, they drop it when they're PKed at their farm - I'd assume quite a lot of people will dislike that very much.

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That's the point though, it's different situations. Quite a bit of artisanry will be done at your freehold. There's a chance that top lvl artisanry will only be done at your freehold, because you'll need specialized tools/items/etc. People who prefer that gameplay would most likely only have their freehold as the main means of participating in that gameplay.

Pretty much every other type of gameplay has several sources. Boss/mob pve is varied to all hell (well, assuming Intrepid don't fuck up). Pvp is the same. Even certain artisan professions will have different locations where you can partake in them. So in none of those could a pvper prevent you from participating in your preferred gameplay. They can obviously inconvenience you, but that's about it.

Now my assumption could obviously be incorrect and freeholds might not be the only way to do top lvl artisanry. If that's the case, then I guess it's no different from any other owpvp interaction. Though, as you pointed out yourself, there's gonna be a ton of stuff that you'll be able to do inside your house, where you'll definitely be protected. At which point I'd have to ask, why those professions are special while everyone else can be pvped and inconvenienced.

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By the pure virtue of having a progression system tied to artisanry, there's gonna be a top lvl item related to each profession. The value of those items would obviously differ and fluctuate, but that's no different from farming the best boss that drops a ranged weapon and farming a boss that drops a melee one. Both are at the top, but would most likely be valued differently.

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Even by the simplest action of moving to another place, the victim would highly increase their chances of escaping the attacker. Be it through the means of better mobility, or simply by running into other people who'd kill the free purple. And as soon as the attacker dies and/or loses their target - it's gonna be way more difficult to annoy said target than if the attacker knew exactly where that target would be (that is, the freehold).

And you don't need to be online 24/7, because your victim would most likely not be online 24/7. W/o the ability to teleport, your victim would always be at their freehold, with you right outside the door. All the "effort" you'd have to invest would just be having the game open on your screen. And if you have 2 monitors (or even just a big enough one) - you can even watch yt/movies/etc while you're doing this.

Any other attempt at complete gameplay shutout would require waaay more effort from the attacker. You'd have to constantly track their movement, while also avoiding any other attackers on yourself (mobs included), and, like I said, a single death would immediately mess up your plans in a pretty big way.

As for boss interruption, just as with pretty much any other system, we've got no clue how hardcore it'll truly be. Maybe bosses won't be anywhere near the difficulty where a single person could mess everything up. Maybe they'll have pvp zones around them. Or maybe Intrepid gonna cave in and go instanced. If anything, I feel like "1 person screwed it all up" is the least probable design right now.

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Don't you see the contradiction in this change then? If pvp on a freehold is seen as harassment and anyone who attacks you on your freehold is just harassing you (cause they have no benefit in it) - why in hell would you even allow pvp there?

Is it a bait for bans? Or... by chance... you WILL have benefits if you attack someone on their freehold. This is why we worry about this change. Intrepid have either made a change that just baits people to get banned (because there's always people who'll play the game in the way they were allowed to play), or they made a pointless dumb decision that literally benefits no one.

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Then what about holding a boss hostage from a guild for a very long time? Would that be considered harassment too? Cause effectively it's the same thing. In both cases the attacker is just preventing the victim from participating in their gameplay. Should guilds (or just groups of people) who do that get banned as well?

What about holding a dungeon entrance? A gathering spot? A trade route?

This is kinda my problem with the harassment rules. Either design your game systems in such a way that harassment is very very difficult or set the same rules across all types of gameplay. Me preventing your guild from farming a boss would probably not count as harassment (I fucking hope it doesn't), but me preventing a top lvl artisan (who might be my opponent on the market) from doing their stuff would be. I don't quite see that as fair.

So just as AA had non-pvp zones with farms, copy that and give artisans a place where they can chill. Attackers can still mess them up during the transportation, just as you pointed out, but their main means of gameplay wouldn't be touched. And everything outside of the freehold would be dangerous as hell, as it should be, and holding a gathering spot for days on end, PKing anyone who approaches (it should be very very hard to do, but doable) shouldn't be seen as harassment.