Corruption system and getting "the jump" in wpvp

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Well, if it was somehow unclear before now, my problem with any incentive for permaflag is that literally any incentive other than 'you have less penalties when you actually do die' has the problem noted. Someone will 'use it for a bonus while actually avoiding PvP however possible'.

And from there, if we consider that to be a skill that should be rewarded, then my stance is that if you are dying too much from flagging, it's that you have insufficient skill . But since one already get a bonus that alleviates exactly that issue (half the normal death penalties), then one can take more time to resolve personal skill issues.

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So, back to the point.

Permaflag as an option a player can personally take is ok with me with Ashes' current design.

I am ok with the current benefit for permaflag, i.e. guaranteed less item drops and exp loss on death. I am even ok with this benefit being used to prevent losses when taking on hard PvE content.

I'm not ok with any exp benefit. I might be open to other suggested benefits, but I haven't personally thought of any.

Wars. Mainly guild wars. Simply find a guild that wants owpvp as much as you do and work together to upkeep at least one guild war against another strong guild at all times.

You'll get your endless pvp against others that would be willing to pvp (or at least wouldn't punish you for killing them), while also not impacting the entire game with a big design change.

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To me it's more about "why even spend time on this when you already have this function". Anyone who wants to be seen as "a pvper" can always attack another person and keep their flag. Or be the first one to shoot an approaching player. This action would, functionally, be no different from just running around perma-flagged, except now there's no confusion on the newcomer's side as to whether you're flagged due to the toggle or due to you wanting (and being ready) to fight right now.

Toggles work "fine" in games where they are the only system because the toggled players see each other and know what to expect from the get-go. If a toggle was added to Ashes, you being perma-flagged would simply be a detriment, because anyone can make use of your flag by CCing you and bursting you down for absolutely free loot.

The amount of people who'd be willing to use this toggle would be miniscule. And if you implement some additional benefits (such as xp) - we come back to the thing Azherae mentioned, where the toggle would be simply used by huge groups to boost themselves, with absolutely no tangible downside or heightened risk related to the toggle.

And if you say "well, those groups can be attacked by other big groups" - that'll already happen in the current system, either due to wars or simply because flagging up deep in a dungeon is a way faster method to remove a competitor, than hoping that they won't PK your healers which would then need to come back here from the very top (at which point you might have to chaperone them as well).

As you yourself say, the pvers wouldn't really be impacted. Majority of pvpers wouldn't want to constantly be flagged, because that's simply too inconvenient and time-consuming. And anyone who does want to be constantly flagged or is sure that they can take any competitor on - can simply flag up against anyone they see.

There's no real benefit to this system, while there's definitely a ton of friction from both the dev sides of things (balancing xp values, mob locations/respawn frequency, etc) and the player pugs side (if a perma-flagged person joins a pug - they can't be reliably healed, while they can constantly die).

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My guild's name in L2 was "WarToAll". You know what the first thing we did after creating the guild on a server? Declaring a war on literally every guild on the server (luckily L2 allowed this).

So I know from experience how it feels to be "perma-flagged" against everyone you see.

I've also played on servers where pvp was simply always on. No corruption no nothing. It was an utter mess of constant deaths (mostly because even towns were pvp zones). It was super fun for me, cause I like pvp, but the server itself wasn't at all popular.

So again, I know how it is to play a game with either setup, both in huge groups and as a solo player. And I'm telling you, there's no tangible benefit to the absolute majority of potential Ashes players in having a pvp toggle.

There will be so many avenues to have constant (or at least very frequent) pvp, that creating a whole system just for a few people seems highly impractical.

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I think where the main disconnect between you and NiKr specifically is happening (based on what I know about NiKr) is that NiKr is expecting a lot more from the Guilds, Node, and War systems, to fill the space you're referring to.

I also hope to see something like this. I am not sure we will, but I have no problems with the idea that a whole Guild or a whole Node or even a whole Alliance can just mark me as a target, even just as a 'rival'. This is a way to have some pretty heavy 'autoflag' and also help the first thing you wanted.

I will gladly have cool 'stalking' battles with a known enemy through whatever forests we live in.

Since you don't seem as committed to the 'true survivor' lifestyle where literally anyone can attack you all the time (in the sense that it's not the thing you are trying to enjoy here), I'd think this was better. Doesn't even require real animosity, it could easily be a meaningful 'agreement'.

Node A and node B citizens tend to gather in the same forest, fighting to take the others' resources in that forest is just always ok, but maybe they sometimes want to give peace a chance, during winter or if dealing with a shared threat.

Hence, Guild Wars.

Btw, on the note of "even towns on that server were pvp zones". This will be true in Ashes if you're perma-flagged. So you won't be able to escape the abuse and pretty much spawncamping from an abusive group. Unless Intrepid make you a special respawn point of "right next to the npc with the toggle enabler (which is also now a safe space)" - you'll be killed over and over and over and over again until you simply log off.

Hell, I could definitely see quite a few groups of people having that kind of fun in the game. Just hunting perma-flags and roly-polying them

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Unless I missed it, this wasn't asked before. In your toggleable system, when would you be able to disable it? Would you even let people disable it?

Cause if you allow disabling then how is this any different from the current system? If you're not ok with how short the current flag timer is, what's stopping the supposed "system evader" from simply going to an npc and removing their flag (which in majority of cases would require the same amount of time as waiting out a flag timer)?

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May I introduce to you... drum rollllll....

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_wars

You've literally just described this. Militaristic countries don't suddenly start fighting others or are ok when others fight them. They CAN go to war (I know this from very personal experience), but they don't always do.

So, once again, your suggestion is already in the game. You just gotta use the tools. The chances are, military mayors will probably try being at war way more often than other nodes (especially if Intrepid design the nodes in a good way), so you simply become a citizen of such a node and you have yourself a whole damn vassal system in which you're the enemy.

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So yeah, I don't really see how this would work in Ashes and not be the main route to absolute spawncamping by pretty much any group that just wants to have "some fun".

Alternatively perma-flaggers would just operate in their own node, which would mean that general travel times are under 2 minutes (from any point in the node to its center, on a mount), which is pretty much the same as the current timer.

So, say, in a situation where you were pvping deep in a dungeon and you win. Your opponent would rez somewhere outside the dungeon (assumedly). If dungeons are as big as was promised, it would probably take him about 30s-1m to get back to your location (if there's a way to completely avoid all mobs along the way and also no one else aggros onto the flagged person). So in this scenario both of you would be still flagged.

If the opponent now wanted to come to that location unflagged (especially if he doesn't want to risk anyone else killing him), he'd wait to unflag outside the dungeon and then run inside. Assuming that flag doesn't drop on death, that'd be 2min at minimum.

From a reference here, it takes under 2 minutes to mount from from end of a metro to another.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Faster_travel

Which means that it takes even less to mount from other points in the node to the center. So if the opponent wanted to remove the toggle and then come back, it'd take him ~2.5-3m to come back to your location unflagged (again, assuming no one kills him on his way to the node center).

The xp loss (let alone other penalties) of operating as a perma-flagged person outside your own node (or a military one, as you suggested) would HIGHLY outweigh any 5-10% bonus to xp gain, which would decrease the amount of people who do decide to do this to absolutely miniscule amounts (again, outside of big groups that do this on purpose).

So, having said all that, would you be fine if the pvp flag stayed on the person for 3m instead of 1.5? Cause I'd be totally fine with that number for those who make the first strike against a green (which would be the "jump" in the context of this thread).