Corruption system and getting "the jump" in wpvp

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Well then all I can say is "I prefer the current timer"

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I've asked several times for a clarification. What does the system prevent you from doing? Because the only thing I see is "killing the dude w/o repercussions". Mag noted that as well.

This is the main reason why I say that I see no "exploits" in this situation. I see several exploits of the target not being able to do any content, but that's an exploit on the side of the initial attacker and not the target.

So I'll ask again, what exactly is the system preventing you from doing here?

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Ok, then another question. How is that boldened part not "kill the dude for free"? Cause you said

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Yet, the only thing that the system is stopping you from is "a free kill".

This is the part I'm not understanding. Your words say one thing, yet when I ask about that thing - you say that you mean some other thing.

If you just say "yes, I want to get a free kill on this person that was pvping me a minute ago but is now not flagged for pvp" - I'll completely understand your point and will simply disagree with it.

Yet you insist that this is not your point.

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If that person is flagged (or you are both in a pvp event or open seas) - yes, you can kill them for free.

But an unflagged person is not a pvper.

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Uhm...

It's 90 seconds And as I said, I prefer the current timer.

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And again. The "jump" you're doing, in this context, is against a green player. A, by default, passive player.

You are completely free to follow through on your "jump" and kill him. The system is not stopping you from doing that. The only thing it's doing is saying "if you kill a green player - the consequences are different from killing a purple one".

You ask me to see your pov, but you refuse to acknowledge that this game does not have a "free pvp" design. All player are non-combatants by default and return to this default state after 90 seconds of their last attack on a flagged/green player.

Your perceived unfairness comes from the inherent desire to be able to kill another player w/o a punishment. But any opponent can, at any time, decide that they've had enough pvp for the day and decline to flag back up. They won't be "hiding" behind the system or ragequitting (as Azherae put it). No player out there owes you a reciprocal flagging up at all times of your convenience.

I say "honestly no" to that question because that's exactly what I would say to a person who'd ask me "can't you see that him attacking me at any moment is unfair to me?" Both yours and this question are on the extremes of the pvp spectrum. You consider it a disadvantage that you can't keep your unfair advantage over a target, while another person considers it unfair that you even have that advantage.

The system is in the middle. Though it's not even the middle of those 2 extremes, it's way closer to the PK side, because you can still always attack another person and you're always free to kill that person. You just have to take into the account that there'll be consequences.

Also, you keep saying that you "lose advantage" due to this system, but how exactly is that true? You're free to keep up that advantage at all times. You don't need to keep using your strongest abilities on the target. You can just keep him at 25-50% hp until he either leaves, dies or fights back.

And if he does in fact leave, heals back and then comes back - how is that any different from him simply coming back after a death? And as today's showcase (and pretty much all the other ones) showed - none of our damaging abilities have smth like 1m++ cd. And even if the literal strongest ability does have that kind of cd - running away and healing up to full from it would potentially take ~the same amount of time. And this is w/o even mentioning that starting off pvp with it seems a bit silly imo.

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As I pointed out on the last page, your exact interaction happened countless times in Lineage 2. Steven copypasted L2's system one to one and then simply tuned the nobs of punishment higher (into the pve side btw).

So this interaction is quite intended, otherwise Steven would've changed it when copying the system. This is exactly why I've been adamant on explaining that this is how the system is in this game.

NiKr wrote: »

And even if the literal strongest ability does have that kind of cd - running away and healing up to full from it would potentially take ~the same amount of time. And this is w/o even mentioning that starting off pvp with it seems a bit silly imo.

Idk it's a hell of a Leap.

From downtown!

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As Okey already pointed out, your preferred pvp will be the absolute majority of pvp in the game. Literally every pvp event and the open seas (a pretty big part of the map) allow you to freely kill your opponents.

The corruption system is in the game to not alienate the players who'd be willing to die a few times here and there at the hands of another player, but would not be willing to play a game where they can be freely killed at all times and anywhere.

Azherae wrote: »

Idk it's a hell of a Leap.

From downtown!

That archetype shoulda been called Michael Jordan CAUSE HE FUCKING FLIES

But yes, obviously there'll be super mobile chars or ones with super high regen, who'll come back way faster. But is this not just a part of the "owpvp is always unfair" that blot has already acknowledged before?

I just find it silly that having an unfair advantage is fine when it's "you", but it's not fine when it's the opponent

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Which is exactly why the system is they way that it is. Your described situation will be so damn rare when compared to literally every other instance of pvp in the game that its importance pales in comparison to the importance of curbing malicious pvp attacks on green players.

The example that I mentioned on the previous page summed up to maybe 1-2% of my pvp interactions in the game across 12 years of playing. Everything else was guild wars and sieges. Ashes will have even more ways to participate in free pvp, so the % of the presented situation will be even lower.

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Once again, I've been playing with this exact pvp system for 12 years. I've been pvping in this exact system for the same 12 years. I've fought thousands upon thousands of different players, all with different approaches to not just the fights but the system itself as well.

And as I already said, I've experienced your exact situation a ton of times. It's a completely normal way to use this system, because the system is a tool that players can use, just as a tree is a tool to use against a ranged character when you're trying to dodge their attacks.

I understand that you've never played with this system, so it feels completely alien to you and weird and all of that. But I'm just telling you that expecting Steven to change the system into something even more pvpey is a lost cause, considering that he has already made pve tunes to this system and the ABSOLUTE MAJORITY of feedback on this system will be along the lines of "why in the living fuck are people attacking me?!?! PLz fIx".

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It's because I believe that is what would be preferable for the kind of owpvp experience that I'd prefer. I've proposed and discussed multiple variations on this system on these forums. Iirc at some point I even proposed a longer flagged counter, just as you did.

But unless Steven decides to overhaul the pvp system completely - I believe that the current timer is just right for what he's going for with this design.

As a middle of the road compromise, I'd be totally ok if the flagging state had a longer timer if the attacker's last attack was against a green player at <50%hp. We're gonna see that shit either way, it seems, so why not at least use it to its fullest.

Imo any pvper who attacks a visible weaker passive player is a weakling coward, so I'm totally fine with him getting punished for doing so. This would also align with my reasoning for invisible hp values, so there's that too.