10-15 SECONDS TTK

NiKr wrote: »

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Again, you just described a bad combat design I dunno what else I can say, except for "I hope we don't get that kind of shit in Ashes".

If we do - yes, you will be correct and it'll all be dumb boring rotations.

It's a specific style thing, I think MMO players who don't also play fighters just don't have the concepts (related to player preferences) thrown at them as quickly.

You should probably get off the copium and start looking for a diff game though, NiKr. We hear the word 'rotation' used often enough now that I feel that we'd be completely foolish to assume we were getting what you're talking about.

A shorter TTK is just another strong datapoint for the Modern design type.

Azherae wrote: »

A shorter TTK is just another strong datapoint for the Modern design type.

Yeah, it's quite likely at this point.

But as that video shows, I'm already used to shorter ttk, so as long as core designs don't change (mainly being pvp, nodes, wars) - Ashes will still be for me. My standards are super low, even if my desires and preferences are much higher.

If Ashes ends up being completely not my thing - I'll still have Mihoyo games and all the other hundreds of games in my Steam account. I'll simply know for sure that mmos are no longer for me.

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It depends on your perception/definition of it, which is a debate Fighting Game players have been having for 20 years.

Glad to see the MMO space 'catching up to the same issue' with its latest attempts at making competitive play feel good... /s

But I wouldn't say it doesn't require them, it might require them too much. The precision and awareness required for doing a lot of team-combo stuff people do now is quite high, but technically, a high precision skill ceiling with really tight timing isn't a non-option, design wise.

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I play Genshin and that's pretty much BDO's combat, but with even precise aiming for bigger hits on bows, so it's not like I'm not used to that kind of stuff.

I'd just prefer something deeper and more complex on the skill design part, and imo longer ttk supports that way better. Like, I do not see weapon procs mattering at all, nor synergies, nor combos.

And god forbid the tab part of targeting has a "/target PlayerX" function. That would utterly destroy any ttk design or combat balancing.

NiKr wrote: »

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I play Genshin and that's pretty much BDO's combat, but with even precise aiming for bigger hits on bows, so it's not like I'm not used to that kind of stuff.

I'd just prefer something deeper and more complex on the skill design part, and imo longer ttk supports that way better. Like, I do not see weapon procs mattering at all, nor synergies, nor combos.

And god forbid the tab part of targeting has a "/target PlayerX" function. That would utterly destroy any ttk design or combat balancing.

The thing is, you absolutely could get both.

The question is if the niche that enjoys this type of MMO's design also enjoys that type of physical execution requirements.

I really thought the answer to that was 'no' based on things people have said over the years (combined with a few other things said by the people who do like it).

But maybe the whole thing is banking on the silent majority at this point.

Azherae wrote: »

But maybe the whole thing is banking on the silent majority at this point.

Kinda feels like it, yeah. And Intrepid seemingly aims at the younger silent majority, cause I've definitely seen most older players say "tab is the best mmo combat" and so far Ashes has been "making mmos great again" for all those older players.

So maybe this is just yet another contradiction in the design, or maybe I'm just totally mistaken in my assumptions and observations.

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If 30s is a dps vs dps baseline for 1v1 ttk, at even 3s cast time speeds that's 10 equally-powerful abilities to kill your target.

A party physically cannot have 10 dpsers to use their powerful abilities to one-shot a person.

Or are you on Depraved's side of this and are talking about "a damn raid is targeting a single person"? Cause I don't think anyone here denies that possibility.