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Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 20:40:53
Yes, I'm fully aware of how the system works. I'm considering those penalties as the default base penalty. I'd assume that in most cases, if you have friends with you - you gonna try grinding off your corruption and not die. But if you see that a group of people is coming towards you - the safest way to limit the loss of your resources/gear is for your mate to kill you. And I personally don't want that to be the case. If they even come close to this kind of design, I dunno how people will react
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 20:50:29
As my 2 cents - no, 80/20 (with most instances being story-based) is more than enough and well-balanced. The game will be about player on player interaction, so 80% of dungeons being open world is right in line with that goal. Now Steven has said that he wants super difficult bosses in Ashes, but it's yet to be proven how exactly he plans on designing such bosses in the context of open world.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 20:52:23
Coming from a tab game with no gcd - please no fucking gcd. Thank you
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 20:56:51
I'm not quite sure what exploit you're talking about Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "If you drop corrupted gear you can no longer equip it on your account as its corrupted to your soul."
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 21:09:26
There's no coordination though. Your mate (with whom you already were most likely) is just the one to kill you, instead of a BH or a green. BHs lose pretty much any and all of their usefulness, while greens never get any potential Red drops. And yes, from how Steven answered my question, it definitely feels like he mainly had the "counter solo PKers" thought in mind when he was making changes to the L2's system. And I personally want this part of the system to be a bit harsher. This would mainly just promote corruption grindoff in guilds ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 21:29:32
This is where my L2 bias shows too. To me, running in a party is literally the most basic thing you do in an mmo The only times I was farming alone in L2 was on high rate servers with automatic buffers and mana pots. Yeah, and that's why I think that making the potential punishment that much harder would be fairly beneficial to the system. As I see it, constant groups would most likely have a designated "vacuum" member who'll never PK, so resource drops will not be an issue for Reds that are in a party. And ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 22:47:17
You do "delvel" though. Your stats go down because your XP debt gets you below your Level value. But, unless the levels matter too much for the character power, I doubt most people will care about 1-2 levels "lost".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 23:37:48
I think this mantra might work against you sooner rather than later. L2 was PvX too, but I don't remember a single farming session where I wouldn't see/fight a person in the same place. And that was on way smaller servers than what Ashes has planned. And allegedly Intrepid doesn't want grind in their game so farming stuff might be tied to particular world events or boss spawns or dungeon openings (due to node progress), which will push anyone who wants to get that farm towards the place of said farm. So there'll probably be way more friction in ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-30 23:54:20
Oh, I attempted it a lot, but in L2 even at 3 am in bumfucknowhere there was always some nerd just grinding. But Ashes will be way more concentrated on prime-time gaming so there's higher chances that most people will see each other in the open world. And you can give advise to "just pick another time to do what you want" because you're a time-hardcore person, but most people can't just pick their gametime willy-nilly. Especially if they're playing in a group/guild, where the shared gameplay window is even narrower. I'll be playing Ashes for a ton of ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 02:05:52
I think that's more of a "BDO has no community" issue (most likely because of the channels) rather than a "PKing has no social consequences" one. If someone was PKing a lot in L2, the upper echelon of players would usually know them or at least of them. Usually that'd get that PKer invited to a more aggressive guild (especially if he PKed someone high lvled) and would definitely not get him invited into the more "moral highground" guilds. And this was usually the case because you'd spend days/weeks in one/two locations when farming. And you'd see the same ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 02:16:04
I dunno if this kind of thing would be a good test of the mechanics/features, but I feel like some good ol' rng could help alleviate any worries. Have the bosses in random places on the PTR instead of their designated nodes and give those bosses randomized new abilities (if there are any new ones). The people wouldn't know which nodes to level up before the new patch, they wouldn't know which boss has which abilities - all while still testing if the overall boss AI works fine and whether the abilities work properly. In other words, separate the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 12:02:13
In my experience this is exactly what starts a war though You get PKed. You ask your friends to help kill the dude (if he was stronger than you). The dude brings his friends. And after an hour or so you have several dozen people on both sides just fighting each other w/o any real reason. Now AoC's war deccing will be way more difficult and pricey than L2's and it'll be more of a prime-time thing, so I highly doubt guild wars will be that big of a thing. If anything, I feel like Node Wars and Enemy ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 13:41:32
Instanced content in Ashes won't be repeatable and won't reward you with BiS stuff. Let's say there's 100 dungeons overall. If 20 of them are just one-offs with cosmetic/mid gear rewards, that means that 80 will have farmable content with varying levels of gear, that includes BiS stuff. Obviously, not all of those dungeons will be top lvl, so let's say 8 of them are (10%). If they're properly spread out throughout the world, you have 8 distinct places you can farm when you reach top lvl of your character's progress. If the split is 7/3 - you'll only ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 14:35:01
Well yeah, that's the thing they gotta prove to me, cause right now I don't see how an open world dungeon won't just be a grindable place. If only bosses drop anything valuable, then the game might die real quick, cause all the pvers will just leave after learning that they can only farm a few bosses a day IF they're lucky enough to be the first ones to farm said bosses that day. This is assuming that bosses don't have just a 1-2h respawn timer. But if mobs give some valuable mats - the dungeon will be grindable, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 14:53:30
There. Fixed it for you These 2 are contradicting statements. You can't have many big owd if you have 50% of all dungeons being instanced. There's only so many dungeons Intrepid can make for the release of the game. You can always add a shitton of instances later on because they don't take up physical space in the game. But in order to add an owd you'll have to account for how nodes are situated and leveled and how deep the dungeons go (especially if they're "HUGE in size"). Also, you can always reuse an instanced dungeon for more ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 15:25:18
I mean, none of those things remove the fact that big Nodes will probably stay the same for a while. Steven has said that the cost of siege scroll will be equivalent to the approximate value of the node being sieged. So sieging a metropolis will be insanely expensive. And due to that cost, a metro might stay up for a few weeks after its advancement. And that is if anyone even wants to siege it right away, which is also a huge "will they even" question. Even if we assume that each season change brings a huge node ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 15:37:20
Yeah, we'll have to see how they design those dungeons Well, as I've somewhat stated in the grinding thread, to me "anything that can be farmed repeatedly can be grinded". If some of those owd don't have mobs at all, that to me would be a non-grindable dungeon. But I personally doubt they'll have such dungeons. They could of course have mobs with 0 loot, just as a way of making an "npc dungeon" more fun, but I somehow doubt this one too. Though I guess this would fit the "risk vs reward" scheme, so the possibility of Ashes ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 15:52:33
But you can grind those mobs for money that you then use to buy what you want. And even if what you want is not sold at that moment, you can instead buy what you need so that you have more money later when you do get what you want. And just to clarify, imo grinding is not boring. So whether I'm just killing mobs for money or doing some artisan stuff for myself - the value of the action is the same to me. The grind in this case just indicates some action that I can do for ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 16:24:37
And to me any repetition is tedious, but any loot is decent which makes any farming grind, but still fun and valuable (to me)
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 17:14:49
Yeah, but my whole point is that any farming can be made into grinding, yet Intrepid wants to try and prevent that (that is if I understood their goal correctly). So taking your first example it'd be like "farming = barbeque, while grinding = cooking". Any given activity can be fun (barbequing in this case), but all those activities fall under the umbrella of "cooking" where you can make them into a grind. Even the most fun mob/boss farm can be turned into a tedious grind through repetition (i.e. WoW).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 19:38:22
Yes, and I agree with these definitions. And my main issue with those statements in relation to Ashes is this: leveling will take up to 45 days of 4-6h of gameplay. Nodes will mostly limit the availability of best content for your level, so while leveling you'll most likely be killing mobs below your level in order to push as much XP as possible before the node levels up (by "you" I mean hardcore people who push lvls, not you in particular). To me that sounds like a grind, because it'll be impossible to constantly do the most XP-optimal ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 19:42:34
To me they are, to Dygz apparently not. I come from the lands where spending literal weeks killing the same mobs in the same room was "farming". You'd get maybe 1/10 of a % per several hours of fighting mobs and you miiiiight drop 1-2 gear mats during the same time. That's farm/grind in my eyes. Yes it's tedious, but those mats are so valuable that it's worth it. And that farming was also diluted with some fun pvp, so it wasn't as dull as it potentially could've been. I hope Intrepid manages to somehow keep that same fun ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 19:58:37
L2 had limited arrows. My brightest memory about my days playing an archer was when I was challenged to a duel by another archer. We go out of town to fight, another person does the count for us to start the fight and just as the finish the count I realize that I forgot to stock up on arrows. I do 2 plain shots and run out of arrows. Luckily L2 allowed you to use skills w/o arrows. I managed to win that pvp purely through skill use, even though L2's archers mainly won their pvps by getting a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 20:36:38
Yeah, magic arrows and shit.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 20:42:19
Your solution doesn't quite work for Ashes because, at least so far, the design seem to value basic attacks quite a lot (similar to how L2 did). So if you make basic attacks rely on limited resources - you're dooming archers to spend more money than other classes. And the AoC's feature of "anyone can wear anything" doesn't quite apply here because Archers will have passive weapon skills that will boost their bow dmg (and quite likely rely a lot on basic attacks), so Archers will most likely run around with bows as their main weapon and use their ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 20:48:54
Yeah, and that's what Intrepid are trying to do. "Give players more content than they can consume". Except I personally won't believe that's possible until they prove it. Which is literally what I said at the start of this sub-discussion. I have some trust in their team because they've shown a ton of promising things already, but all of those things will only be as good as the core gameplay of the game is. And even if I personally can enjoy most/all things in whatever form they come, quiiite a lot of people are picky or have just been ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 21:14:50
Except they will because that is how combat in Ashes works (as of rn at least). Basic attacks are valued, so if your basic attacks require money to execute - you're at a disadvantage against other classes. Except you have limited mana so your magic arrows are not unlimited. And usually they'll be way more limited than your basic attacks, even if the arrows for the basic attacks are limited. Ashes won't be a survival game though. If you, as an archer, are fighting in a party and see enemy parties coming towards you - you gonna kite them. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 21:33:05
Except most of the time the higher in lvl you go the better and more expensive potions you get, so they never really "just become cheap". What spam? Archers will just shoot arrows the same way they would with unlimited arrows. Literally nothing changes except for the money requirement. And no, other classes won't magically become better than archers at using the bow if arrows are unlimited. Archers will have weapon skills for bows so they'll always be better at using a bow. And again I ask: why have it cost anything if you mean to make the cost ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 22:19:25
No pve servers and no way to 100% avoid being ganked. Sooner or later there will be a dude who'll want to kill someone and you will just so happen to be next to him. And even if that never happens, there'll still be node wars, node sieges or caravan attacks - all of which would directly influence your gameplay, mainly in the way of you getting killed and your stuff getting destroyed/taken.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-31 22:49:44
Then the price doesn't go down and archers will be bogged down as a class because of that. Again, you'll be shooting brainlessly either way. It's just that in your suggestion archers will have to stock up on shitton of arrows before going out farming. And that shitton will cost a lot of money, which will make archers the less preferred class. You'll never be just attacking infinitely. Either your enemy's hp runs out or yours does. And you'll have enough arrows to last you several hours of farming during each farm session. And in order to have them ...