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Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 01:24:01
As much as I want to keep believing in people, it's really hard to do. And so far I've seen no indications that those who say those things can change. I've tried helping bring the opposites povs to a closer point (to varying success), but I quite often feel like I'm overstepping with my assumptions of what one side might've meant. But no amount of help would really change the underlying problem of "people just don't have the empathy nor the understanding to see someone else's pov". I think it just comes down to the "internet posters rule" (not ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 01:34:34
If ttk will really be 30+ secs, you'll have a tooon of time to flag up against someone and either wait for their response or see them run, or if it's a gatherer in a middle of the field with no mobs in sight - just stand there and wait for you to finish them off or not. OWPVP can still happen even if PKing is super harsh.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 01:44:13
Unless Intrepid prohibits any kind of PKer healing/buffing by other people - the bard and healer of the PKer's party will just protect him as long as possible. And if the tank has a bard as his secondary, there's also a chance that the PKer will have a much bigger def values so it'll be easier to defend him. And yes, this will flag the helpers purple. But unless the victim party manages to outdmg all that protection - they'd need to flag up against the helpers to beat the PKer. And when it comes to the initial kill, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 02:17:19
Not losing the stuff is the challenge. And the stuff that you can lose is the stakes for that challenge. And as for Souls games, you do lose souls (or their alternatives). And I don't know about other gamers, but my adrenalin always spiked when I could lose my souls after a very long session of successful kills w/o depositing my souls. Now in Souls games it's a staggered death, meaning that your first death is not as impactful because you can come back and pick up your souls, but that "come back" is the true challenge now. If ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 02:18:45
Good questions.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 10:21:06
And as the other part of that, I want to be able to stop someone from gathering if I see them harvesting a super rare thing. And if they can then just finish the gathering process in a second - I won't be able to do so. Though we don't know if we even can stop people from gathering, so who knows, maybe it's not important at all.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 10:34:55
On a singular player basis - yeah, for sure. But on the scale of a 40-100-member guild - lvl1 will just gather up everything they see, even if their gathering is slow. George, you do realize that the issue here is all those gatherables getting gathered all at once and not the "omg I won't have one cycle of gatherables respawn". Unless the system resets within an hour, gathering everything in your node will prevent you from gathering more in the nearest time. But if it resets in an hour - what even is the point of it? If ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 11:04:30
@Noaani when I said that I think you'd want to sit in a dungeon most of the time I meant that only instanced content will be of the best quality and you want that kind of content to fill up your gametime. And that doesn't mean "sit in the same one for hours", but instead "have several such instances that I can farm a few of them every day". Was that assumption wrong? And as for the other response, I feel like you're just calling Elite mobs Bosses. I feel like we literally want the same exact thing, except ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 11:14:48
Why would I want to kill Azherae?! I wanted to help her test the game! Though I guess the latter includes the former
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 11:31:01
Yes, only the one who did the finishing blow get the corruption currently. And that's exactly why I said that bard and tank would need to provide support too, cause I know that 8 people assisting onto one target should delete it in theory, but with proper defensive buffs it might provide enough protection to the red player to let the healer keep him at high hp. Obviously not forever, bust for some amount of time, which might just be long enough to agro the victim party into flagging up. And the other members of the attackers can try ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 11:52:12
Yep, I'd expect way more mechanical difficulty from proper dungeon mobs. And you say again that this would just be filler and not real content. So was I right in assuming that you'd rather just farm hardcore top lvl instances as your main means of spending gametime? Cause you said that we don't get what instances are, but you reinforce the idea that only instances can provide real content and then say that you want real content in the game. And to me that sounds like you want to mainly farm several instanced fights every day. I'm assuming that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 11:53:02
P P focus!
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 12:16:12
Ok, now I understand your position better. We just have different names for the mobs. To me that'd be mob, elite mob, boss. So when I say that dungeons should have top tier mobs, I mean that pretty much every room in the dungeon has an Elite (mb even two) who has plain mobs for adds, while those mobs themselves are difficult too (just as you described). And then there'd be several bosses in a few deep rooms of the dungeon. And THEN in the last room of the dungeon you'd have an epic boss who gives out legendary ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 12:46:20
Yep, it'd be the big boi of the group with his own abilities. I'm not necessarily taking that naming scheme from any particular game, just saying what I'd call that kind of separation of mob power. On some L2 servers that I played there were x10 and x50 "elite" mobs that were literally the same as plain ones, but had increased stats (namely x10 and x50 increase). And open world bosses would have a unique name and unique abilities. But due to both of those being easy on their own, I'd want to see elite mobs that combine both ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 13:25:21
On yesterday's stream we learned that killing a player's controlled creature will give us lesser corruption value than what we would've gotten if we killed the player themselves. Here's the clip for context https://clips.twitch.tv/SteamyLivelyWaterMau5-VRVyw0WmCXdCvPoZ And with that in mind I started to ask myself, why would that be the case, considering that the mule can carry x10 of the player's inventory and will most likely get utilized during prolonged farming sessions (be it artisan or mob-based one) or just to "safely" transfer mats between locations, instead of using a caravan. This seems quite counterproductive to the principle of "risk ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 13:28:53
Why exactly would the generate a pvp battleground "anyway"? Don't think we've heard anything about bosses generating battlegrounds. There's been several people who think Intrepid will go down that design route, but there's been no news on that front to my knowledge.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 13:36:52
This slows down a single player, but doesn't really prevent overexploitation by the masses. Capacity is already limited by quantity. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Inventory We already have mules. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mules As you said yourself, devs have already mentioned these kinds of things. And world events could definitely be linked to overexploitation of resources. In other words, pretty much everything that you suggested is either already in the game or doesn't quite address potential issues with the system.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 13:49:45
I've outlaid somewhat of a counterpoint to this in a neighboring thread. And the discussion about land management abuse was going from "just PK anyone who's gathering on your land" to "bring low lvls to a node and overgather everything" (which is pretty much the bait for the first response). And considering that those low lvls can repeatedly come to the node, while the PKers would have to repeatedly kill them - how exactly would Intrepid have to determine who's the griefer there. Especially if we assume that the response to those low lvls will be, yet another recent ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 13:55:09
Yep, that's my expectation for them as well. Otherwise they wouldn't make any sense. Which is why I think that your suggestion has been already addressed, cause I believe that Intrepid are smart enough to not make a system that makes another one of their systems almost completely redundant. Have you gone through the whole discussion in the Goalid's thread? Cause, while Steven did address the low lvl gathering a bit on stream, I don't think his explanation completely ruled out the potential "abuse" of the system by a guild or a node. Especially if only one character on ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 14:08:25
Unless that spell would only work if you have no gatherables and processed goods on you - no. Having a teleportation mechanic to circumvent the entire "risk vs reward" system goes against two of the biggest features of the game.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 14:22:20
It's good points but they all mainly address the victim's side of the equation, while I was more concentrated on the attacker's one. Especially the Xvs1 situations. Usually you'd either run away from a group of attackers or hang corruption on one of them in hopes of them getting punished (with fighting back only being a valid choice if you had smth valuable). But, assuming that you can't just get on another faster mount while you have a sully stocked mule, in this situation your only real solution is to fight back, because even basic mats in big amounts ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 15:09:14
This would have to be a change to the bigger system https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging @hzrdd you get the same portion of its inventory that you would from the owner. So a green mule will drop X amount of stuff and a purple mule will drop X/2. And obviously a red one would drop 4X. Oh, for sure. I mainly just want a better "risk vs reward" equation for this interaction. Definitely don't want to overprotect transportation of goods.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 15:18:02
At this point we'd just need to see how low and how high in difficulty design Intrepid want to go. Maybe base pop mobs have 1 ability. Thiccq mobs have 2-3. Named mobs have 2-3 abilities and a few special mechanics. Plain bosses have 5 abilities, several mechanics and an envi hazard (with a range of differences between all of those to create different difficulties within the Boss type creatures). And top lvl epic bosses have up to 10 abilities with rng uses, several stages with several mechanics each (plain bosses could have two or three stage too maybe) ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 15:25:59
But from what I understand tools just make your artisan life easier. So, in theory, low lvls should still be able to gather general resources in the fields. There's a chance that some nodes will only have some high lvl resources around, but I feel like that goes against the "you see a tree - you cut it" phrase from the stream.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 15:36:31
Would this be a thing that pvpers can use or only greens? What would be the casting time of this spell? Can it be interrupted through dmg or only through CCs? Does it break mob agro/leash? Is it a randomized direction or a controlled one? What's the CD on it? Depending on design this is either an abusable mechanic that griefers will utilize to bully people or a mechanic that's pretty much replaced by using a mount and running away.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 15:44:37
If that's the case, that would mean that the big trees are the juiciest and are meant for the pro lumberjacks. They'll probably be the first ones to be cut by the citizens of the attacked node (in the context of a directed aggressive gathering). So most of the trees/gatherables would be on the early-mid life stage, which theoretically would be cuttable by either lowest or just a bit low lvl artisans. And any potential super young or super old tree could be cut down by high lvl gatherers from the attacking node/guild. And realistically you wouldn't differentiate them ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 16:17:32
So if I'm in a dungeon. Just beat a cool boss and picked up some juicy gatherables from him and I see dudes running towards me to try and loot those gatherables from me. I use this spell and TP to a random respawn point outside of the dungeon (and not at the entrance either, cause then I could've done so with my whole raid and stomp any attackers)? How is that not avoidance of the risk vs reward mechanic of raiding? And if it TPs me around the dungeon, then it didn't serve its purpose, cause the attackers ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 16:26:46
The mule drops the same portion as the player. And the loot is in the mule's corpse, so I'm assuming that if no one loots it - you can just resurrect the mule after some time and all the loot will be still in it (though I'm not sure if we know either way). And as for the corrupted interaction, like I said in the post, the loot would be picked up by the PKer's mates rather than the PK himself, so while the PKer will still suffer the death penalties, the amount of loot garnered from that single ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 17:23:13
Not really though. As long as the mule holds even just a bit over the player's backpack capacity - I win out big time, because I get more resources than I would've gotten from the player himself, while also getting less corruption for doing so. And if the player fights back in hopes of avoid that loss - I stand to loot pretty much the same amount of resources as I would've from a green mule (well, that is if player's backpack is maxed and the mule has roughly the same amount of stuff). My main worry here is ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-29 17:52:34
While I get that sentiment, I'd definitely say that would be some bad design. Instead of proving a good reason to use a system, you're punishing players for not using it. And that's w/o even mentioning that caravan system is risky enough with it being a ffa pvp zone. Why even have mules if they're there just to punish people into using caravans. It seems especially silly considering that there's already an example of an "encourage rather than punish" system in the game. That being the pvp system. You're encouraged to fight back and rewarded with lower death penalties ...