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Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 01:56:11
Do you work at Intrepid that you know that for sure? The Node system will populate locations with both low and high lvl mobs, so artisans will always be in danger, no matter if they're doing low lvl artisanry or high lvl one. And if you're having problems with that - go ask for help from the people who like the vertical lvling process. One of the biggest guilds in L2 was led by a mid-lvl GL crafter, exactly because he didn't have time to grind the lvls and instead just played politics. I've personally known several people that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 19:49:22
I like bashing my head against a huge thick wall until either one gives in. And I usually intentionally go against the usual meta (outside of times where I just happen upon choosing stuff that fits it even w/o knowing it), so quite often I'll be just failing over and over again until I figure out the perfect execution of my build or just build up enough muscle memory to play the game well enough to beat the encounter. The latest example of this is Genshin's Spiral Abyss where I'll try to force my current build for several hours ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 21:09:23
And all those who find this kind of system unfun now have the session-based games. And yet all the rpgs still sell just fine, because they have their audience who likes them exactly the way they are and have been. Only those who have invested enough time into something can partake in the peak content of that something. Levels are just a representation of that invested time. Like I said before, you can be a pirate w/o leveling up to max, but those who have leveled up to max (and invested way more time in the game to do ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 21:16:42
Except for obviously KingDDD. They fucking hate their guts
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 21:43:37
Just rpgs in general. Don't think I've heard of many rpgs where you didn't have a leveling system of some kind. Genshin has several leveling systems, pretty much all based not only on tedious grind, but also on timegates. That game makes over a $billion every 6 months (or at least did on release) and is ultra popular. NW had both vertical and artisanal grind. The game had a mil players on release even after a very weak beta. Lost Ark is probably the closest thing to what you want, but from pretty much every place I've seen discussing ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 21:44:57
Yet the absolute majority of answers here disagree with your "I want everything and I want it now , daddy " attitude.
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 22:55:14
I gave examples of games that have the exact rpg qualities that you dislike and those examples were quite popular. Yes, a free game with rpg mechanics that you can play on mobile and pc (as many newer mmos are btw) is ultra popular even though it has mechanics that you dislike. Yes, a glitchy, broken, shittily-designed game somehow didn't keep its playerbase, what a shocker. But before people knew that it was a broken game, they knew that it was an rpg with a shitton of stuff to level and a vertical progression too. And somehow still a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 23:27:11
This was the first thing I thought of. Same width for bodyblocking purposes, but different heights for different potential location designs. Dunno about head widths though. Could maybe have a slightly wider head on smaller characters to counterbalance the difficulty of tracking a smaller body, though that would probably get figured out in testing.
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 23:54:17
It's a single player game. You're not paying to "win" anything. Any content in the game can be completed w/o spending a single dime, it just takes time, just as any other rpg. Yes, indeed, the mmoRPG genre is saturated with people looking for a new mmoRPG, what a surprise. It's as if I said that rpgs sell well even though they have leveling in them. DMC is a single player game where you only learn a single set of abilities. MMOs by default are multiplayer games where you learn more than one set of abilities. Doubly so in ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-13 23:58:32
Shooters rely on the same muscle memory. Pvp ladder is literally the same "levels" as the mmo ones. You spend a shitton of time to create muscle memory for proper movement and aiming and you get to fight stronger enemies. It's all the same shit, but in a different package. And fps players are even more egocentric about their mmrs and ranks, because it took them THOUSANDS OF HOURS of work to get them. Except pretty much every mmo out there (outside of probably osrs) takes way less time to get to the top.
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 00:17:24
So far this has been roughly my interpretation. Dodges of direct answers of whether they are ok with a ton of grinding are not helping.
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 00:33:39
GW2 probably fits that. LA kinda does too with their super short leveling. Even FF14 could potentially fit this purely because their main story quests give insane amounts of XP. But afaik all of those games have some form of grind after you've reached "max lvl", which is why I've been saying that lvls are just a visual and have nothing to do with the underlying design of the game. The devs either backload all the content (pretty much any mmo that's older than a year) or they provide all the content in the game to all the vertical ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 00:59:51
Oh, I definitely agree that getting the base set of tools of your archetype should come within the first few minutes of the game. The full set would come by lvl 25 and then you spend another 25 lvls specializing, learning and honing that toolset and your own skills until "perfection". And personally I feel like "we want leveling to be long, but not boring, so we're gonna make it fun from the low lvls" would fit my preferences. There's obviously a question of whether Intrepid will succeed in that, but that's a whole other discussion. But OP's comments ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 01:29:41
Could I get a link that shows that? I'm curious how exactly the measure that. Like I said before, DMC is a single player game while mmos are not. You talk to other people and learn from them how their classes work. That socialization and learning takes time. And the amount of stuff to learn is way more than the DMC stuff. Though what's more important in an mmo is how you use your abilities in cooperation with your groupmates. And just like absolutely perfecting combos in DMC takes a ton of time, learning how to play with others ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 01:30:24
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 01:35:35
Ok, I guess I misunderstood some comment of yours. So you're saying that you're completely fine with grinding gear/cosmetics/artisan abilities for over 200h to get stronger and be able to clear other content? Or do you, in fact, just want all the content given to you within the first few hours of the game?
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 02:33:41
I'd personally prefer this kind of multiplier on top of predefined XP values on mobs, which relate to their difficulty. So the super skilled players could go kill not only higher lvled mobs, but also harder mobs and just powerlvl upwards like a rocket, while casual players could either just farm easy stuff at their own lvl solo or go fight harder mobs as a small group. Due to how nodes will be leveling up, I doubt there'll be a ton of precise leveling guides, so I'm not as scared that there'll be some XP calculators or anything like ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 03:34:03
Ok, I think I'm done with this thread. It was pointless from the start and it kept being pointless throughout. Levels won't go away, people who like rpgs will keep liking rpgs, the sun might or might not come up tomorrow. Good talk, everyone
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 04:15:24
Yeah, I thought I should've mentioned this in the og comment. Added this part too, cause I guess not all games might have that.
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 15:15:56
What if there was no higher lvl multiplier for groups? So your best multi in a group would be x2, while skilled solo players could go up to x3-4.
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 15:47:05
I'm kinda against small parties having x1.+ because this would probably lead to 2-3-man groups just farming solo mobs super fast with better xp than if they were doing it solo. And this usually destroys the whole point of a solo location. People can always find a group in a solo location, but when they do they should be highly encouraged to move to a better location because they can now farm better mobs. Also, while we're on topic of group vs solo farming, should drop rates get tuned to the player amounts too or should they always stay ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 16:01:25
Btw, I read a bit of that link and saw the XP chain mechanic. Would you want that in Ashes or is that one of the things that wouldn't work here? I'm a bit torn on this one too, cause it both encourages higher lvl players to help out lower lvled ones, but also helps out bots farmers level up their bots way faster. I'd probably assume that the first outweighs the second one in its overall usefulness to the game, but I'm not sure. We also don't know how the mentor thing will work, so this kind of ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 16:43:19
That's the issue though, L2 didn't have those solutions either 9-lvl difference between party members would prevent the lowest player from getting XP, so I guess that's a "solution"? But you'd usually just get around that with a few farming alts set up at different lvl ranges and just send the leveling group from one to another. Ashes will definitely have things a bit more difficult due to nodes changing and no TPs between them, so it would just take more time to go through the whole process. I'll mainly keep any potential feedback to myself until we see ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 17:07:04
I still think that an Nvidia shadowplay-like system would help a ton with bot reports. Afaik it doesn't take a ton of PC resources, so it's not like no one would be able to play if it was in the game. And it would be the most direct and factual report possible. You see someone who's acting like a bot? Watch him for even 30 secs and hit "report". This will send a supercompressed video to the server and GMs can watch it on their end and see if the report is even worth checking the logs for. I'd ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 21:37:37
I guess this could be tested and balanced, but, as much as Intrepid wants everyone to group up, there's gonna be a ton of solo players. Solo locations will probably be somewhat limited, cause dungeons (or just open group areas) will have the best loots. If you pack enough solos into one location, that slow respawn rate will create a ton of waiting between mobs and then a ton of conflict for each mob that respawns. And while I'd love this to be the case and some oldschoolers might prefer the chill farming with waiting times between mobs, I'm ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 22:04:43
In the past few days the mentorship system has been brought up in a few threads and it made me think about evergreen content that could apply not only to a particular range of lvls, but to pretty much everyone. We know that Nodes will have mobs with a wide range of lvls, but what about other types of content like quests, bosses and gathering. Should they somehow adapt to the server population's progress and have parts of the content that would attract both high and low lvl players? I was mainly wondering about it because this will be ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 22:29:48
Right, I should've mentioned this in the post. I think this cross-lvl interaction should be optional on the side of the low lvl player, exactly to prevent this kind of forced situation. But even with its optionality, there's a high chance that any new player would have to somehow lvl up to max purely solo, which in a game like Ashes might be extremely difficult and would probably take way longer than the party option. And imo this is a pretty big problem for any game that wants to live for more than a year. Which is why I ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 22:36:40
Not feeling dead is great, but playing an mmo solo for, potentially, 200+h is kinda bad. Especially when Ashes is trying to bring back the socialness of older mmos. How many people do that though? Especially to random players and not their guildies or friends. Strevi is a great example here - just doesn't care about lowbies. By powerlvling do you mean just going through the lvls super fast, because the game stops having low lvl content, or do you mean someone helping you grind through the lvls super fast? Cause the former is super bad imo and removes ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 22:57:52
This might be true, but in my experience those alts would either already be in their own alt party because their guild is doing some needed low lvl content, or the alt would be so overgeared and overprepped (and sometimes supported by high lvl support chars) that they can just solo most of the low lvl content w/o ever needing a group. And outside of the times where people make alts purely for fun and because they have literally done everything at max lvl (definitely hope this can't be the case in AoC), most alts are created for some ...
Post by Ludullu on 2023-01-14 23:29:44
But like you said yourself, the high lvls would have no need for or care about those lowbies. If there's no benefit to teaming up with rando lowbies - the majority of players won't do that. It was in the "overgathering mechanics" discussion. People will make low lvl gatherers who always stay green and gather anything they want/need w/o ever fearing that someone will attack them. Yes, that's one solution to the problem, but it doesn't always work. Guilds would have to plant lowbie chars at certain locations to prevent other guilds from farming those locations for free, otherwise ...