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Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 20:02:05
What would be working fine for you? I'm interested in a different pov on pvp balancing cause I only have this one.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 20:34:15
Yeah, this is where the party balancing comes in. You can be a "dagger" party, but in reality you'd only have 2-3 daggers out of your 9-man party. With all the other characters being "supports" against different possible situations. In my experience the main "blame" always fell on OEd gear, because it usually mitigated the rng that was fairly intrinsic to each class. Skill also mitigated it, but to a lesser extent against stronger RPS classes. When I was approaching any solo pvp fight, I'd first see their class (thanks to L2's gearing system). Then look at the player ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 20:53:49
This is where a bit of difficulty of explaining comes into play, because, as I've said before, L2 liked to balance classes with nerfs/buffs through the updates. In earlier updates a dagger would usually lose to a mage because he didn't have any gap-closers, so if dagger didn't have enough hp to come close to the mage (if the fight started at long range with both sides knowing about each other) - he'd just get nuked down. In a later update all daggers got no only full stealth ability, that let them take their time with their attacks (long ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 21:13:32
I can definitely see your point, but it was even worse for all the non-mages before that, because a few mage classes had a super OP buff cancel debuff and an even OPer Sleep ability. And w/o those gap-closers most classes didn't even have a chance at doing anything really (not always, but still). Here's one of the biggest examples of that. Though gear OE and epic gear definitely played a huge role here too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0V-MOz9RWk 6th and 7th abilities are the Cancel and Sleep respectively. You can see the sleep effect by a twisty purple circle over target's ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 21:25:22
Iirc back in those days it wasn't "a buff", it was ~2/3 of your whole buff (max 24 slots). And considering that buffs in L2 were the main source of your power, cancelling that many at such a low cd and w/ 100% chance (iirc) was definitely seen as OP. And as for Sleep, it was kinda the same thing. Low cd, fast cast, long duration. Now the easy thing was that if anyone hits you - you wake up, so in party pvp of skilled people sleep wasn't that big of an issue. But in 1v1 it pretty ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 21:56:20
Which version of the game? Before healer transformations or after them? Cause that transformation definitely helped healers win more, though max clarity talismans would usually fuck that up, cause you couldn't burn out their mp and then just destroy them.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 22:10:08
So iirc right around when we got healer transforms. So a bit easier than it was before, but still a great achievement cause even with that transform you had to know your enemy's limits on dmg to properly use the transform.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-10 23:23:18
I mean, outside of their basic functions, aren't all of those animals just skins with marginally better/worse "stats"? Everyone will get their basic functioning animal (mount/pet/mule/cow) and then if they want to go hardcore - they'll try to get better statted one or better looking one. Yes, livestock will probably be the rarest of those 4, but that just means that demand for high quality animal in that sub-type will be quite high. And the competition amongst all the players who need livestock will also be quite high, because everyone will be trying to be THE one who sells ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 03:30:55
I honestly got no real clue what either of your posts mean (your previous post here was quoting me too). L2 didn't limit what or how you played. If anything, the RPS of classes and a somewhat decent balance of parties meant that you could play whoever you wanted and would be valued for it. On top of that, supports were valued so damn much that they'd always find a party (which is somewhat of a rarity from what I've heard from other mmos). And I don't recall the game being datamined or there being some exact meta. Yes, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 15:36:25
So in other words you want all mothers in Ashes to die! Horrible!
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 17:45:06
Sometimes it's about making a game you wanna make and not just about making the most money
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 18:15:37
My only problem with said experiences is that they're usually exist in faction-based games where there's no "pvp", there's only PK genocide, because it's encouraged by the game. Now I definitely understand and agree with your point here, but I do think the mechanic might change some people's minds, if they try it out.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 20:04:43
That 4th one is a really good question
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 20:37:46
If there's no party for you to find within your node - you'd be sitting in town for 2h either way. party finder only works when you have direct teleportation to anywhere, not in a huge world like Ashes, where, if you find a dude who's from a node 50mins away from you - well, they wouldn't invite you to their party cause ain't nobody waiting for you for 50 mins to get to them. And if there is a party that suits you in/around your node - they'll get you pretty quickly, because they'd be looking for exactly ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 21:39:25
They hate it for Ashes, because instances will be mainly story-based and a one-time thing, while most ow dungeons will be difficult and you won't just solo them. The game is trying to bring back the social aspect of old mmos, and making an automatching party finder would go directly against that.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 22:14:11
I'd assume you just gotta not do the goals set by the game and prevent your target guild from doing them against you.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-11 23:48:37
Do you mean the "different kind of guild wars" Steven mentioned in one of the interviews or do you have some other quote for this? Cause the only thing that was mentioned there is the potential level of stakes a guild can set the war to, but not necessarily objectives.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 01:08:40
It is fairly flawed. As a pvper of 12 years with pretty much exactly the same system as Ashes will have - I fought exactly against people who were similar to my strength or stronger, because it was beyond boring to fight a weak person. So knowing my target's rough strength would be much better than going in blind. But as Torc linked, that will already be the case in Ashes.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 01:14:39
And definitely some good ol' ribbin' that'll come off as elitist and gatekeepy, and saying "this game's not for you"
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 01:41:40
Imo weak people won't have valuable resources. We'll see how it works out in Ashes though, maybe I'm wrong on that assumption.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 02:05:44
All I can say about this is it's very BOLD .
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 04:10:30
Nope, it came later. So it'd be totally fine to have it in an expansion in Ashes. Would bring some spice to endgame for all the veteran players and give smth to strive for for all the newcomers.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 15:23:32
So yeah, literally what I said. Nowhere did it say that we can "set" the objectives. It's just default stuff and then some additional potential objectives based on whatever activity the guild had, which will probably depend on the stakes lvl. And we got no idea how those stakes will be determined either. What if I choose the highest stakes against a super small super new guild? Will I just have to kill their leader, because they haven't done shit? While they might have to get to my guild fortress and still some super relic, because my guild goes ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 15:58:25
Don't think we've heard anything about time limits so far, though, yes, they are a possibility. And we've yet to see what kind of consequences the surrender option has, if any. I remember Jahlon saying that there's some monetary ones, but I don't think I've seen a source for that. And again, from everything I've seen so far - it doesn't seem that we can set objectives. It seems that we can set "stakes", which probably dictates the cost for your declaration and probably the cost of surrender for your target. But the objectives themselves seem to be chosen ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 16:14:24
No limits, only varying costs. You're a lvl10 uber guild with 300 people who defeated several dragons and have a castle? The cost of you deccing a super small super new guild should be astronomical. You can still do it, but you should go almost bankrupt from doing so. And have the opposite effect for the other side. The cost to dec a much stronger guild is way lower than the "standard" price.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 16:51:45
Ok, I see your points. I should've worded it more correctly around my own pov on pvping. I will not be pvping around locations where low lvl adventurers would be present. And even if I did, some small fraction of their resources will be nothing for me, because I'll have time to just farm those resources myself on an alt. And that is why, to me, their death would be of low value. Risking losing my gear over some 10 wood or some shit like that is nothing, when I could just go to my alt and get the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 16:54:48
This is how I saw the "balancing" be implemented. I get what you're saying and definitely agree that people will look for holes and exploits in design, but unless you make at least some form of balancing of powers, I don't see how else you'd stop big guilds from just overpowering everyone.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 16:57:51
Expecting anything is kinda pointless though. I can expect all kinds of shit, and has done so in the past to my own detriment. So until said otherwise, I'd prefer to see it as it has been stated in the past. There's levels of stakes when declaring a war and there's default and stake-based objectives in said wars. There has been no indication to either guild choosing the objective. That'll be my current take on the system, until Intrepid/Steven says otherwise.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 17:01:45
Addressed this in my previous comment. And I was the GL of a guild named "WarToAll". No matter how many members we had, we'd always declare war on literally every guild on the server. And anyone who wanted the challenge of playing in that kind of environment would join us. To us that was super fun and exciting. I'd like to do smth similar in Ashes once I get an alt leveled up high enough (main will be more chill). But I also want to prevent big guilds from abusing the ability to dec everyone, which is why I ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-12 17:08:32
I'm planning on being a mayor of a divine node (cause I got time to do quests) and will just "enemy of the state" such bastards. Outside of that, pvp for me is usually purely fighting. In L2 that pure fighting mainly happened around farming spots just because you spent the most time there, so most pvp could be seen as a "fighting for you spot" action, and it definitely was that sometimes, but to me it was just "I'm farming. Someone came to farm and decided to fight me for it. I fight back." So the economy part ...