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Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 03:08:52
Right, so then just this question remains then and I'll address this to both of you (Azherae and Noaani) and go to sleep so I'll read the answer later. Gotta have at least a bit of sleep before the super hype Sumeru reveal stream in Genshin whatever your answers are, this has been a good discussion for me, thx for sharing your povs.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 09:37:05
We could maybe finally move on from boring "agro the mob and stand in this place" gameplay to fun and engaging "track the mob's agro and defend the person who he agroes on next". I, as a tank, would love that shift personally. But what if that same combination of boss attacks never repeats again? Wouldn't that have been wasted time spent going over smth that might never return? I think Azherae meant it as "tank is no longer tanking, because the boss is never tied to the tank and instead just runs around". Some other roles might get ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 09:48:17
I'm just curious here. As I see "crusaders" (especially holy knights), you'd either need a tank/cleric or a cleric/tank combination rather than a fighter/x one. I could maaaybe see fighter/cleric pairing, but still, out of those 3 choices the fighter seems like the best way to level up a character, mainly because he's a dps (and you said you want a dps class), while both tank and cleric would have to be pretty much supports. So considering that, why do you find that fighter doesn't fit your preference?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 11:36:30
I wouldn't know either way, cause I don't care about that specific combination, nor do I really care for pure RP. Ah, so your issue is just with the first 25 lvls. Got it.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 11:44:31
Nah, it's fine. I think I'm kinda done with this thread. At least for now. I understand that it's not the game that requires the combat trackers, but the people themselves. And changing people is wayyy harder than changing a game's design.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 12:50:56
A few days of one "class" and then years of your preferred one - no that doesn't seem the least bit unfair to me.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 13:13:41
If this system grinds your gears this much or if you are not planning on playing the game for years to come (at your scale that being decades of your preferred class) - guess this is not the game for you.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 13:26:04
Is there open world pvp in OSRS? And if yes, do the bots respond to attacks from other players automatically?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 13:40:36
I'm almost betting that this will be the case. I can hope all I want that augments will somehow be these amazing changes to our skills and their effects, but I'm fairly sure it'll never be that, so I'd rather just prepare for a barebones archetype gameplay w/ barely any changes to it after the class acquisition. And the feedback is completely fine, but considering that we're 5 years into development, drastically changing the whole class system would either delay the release even more than it already has been or just make another NW out of Ashes. And that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 16:29:21
Not right now. And we currently have no date for alpha2 and no news on whether there'll be more spot testing of alpha1.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 20:26:20
Case in point It's the people - not the game.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 21:35:01
I see 2 paths from that though. It's either "Intrepid stops making content that's being pushed ever further by trackers and all the top pvers leave because of that, pulling a ton of lower tier pvers with them, which snowballs into game "dying"" or we get what you described in a previous post, where Intrepid is pretty much just trying to outpace the top pvers' ability to clear content, which creates an ever-bigger divide between the top 1% and the bottom 99%, because, just as you said, most people who won't use trackers won't be able to clear that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-13 22:08:16
I'd assume cause people usually forget or even don't know about such options, but then get annoyed when there's some rando running around their house. But I'd welcome this function as long as I can make my own pretty gates for my freehold. They'll always be closed, but you can marvel at the sheer beauty of my gates
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 00:08:53
That depends on how many of them there are and how hard they hit. Obviously at top lvls it's gonna be way easier (though still not necessarily), but before that they could definitely be strong enough to 3-4-shot any corrupted player and defend the town this way. You could even have ranging strength of them, depending on the node lvl and the amount of money the Mayor invested in them. This way the lower lvl nodes could be more dangerous for normal players, while way safer for PKers, with higher lvl nodes being the opposite.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 00:14:23
I mean, if you have the means to have several players pick up your stuff (cause one player cannot carry even 1/10 of a full caravan) and have a BH (or several) on top of that - why wouldn't you just spend those resources on protecting the caravan and getting it safely to the destination? But even if we disregard that, I'd be happy if this was the case, cause right now I don't see any real disadvantages to raiding caravans. Yes, Steven told us about the raider ladder and there's the gear decay (which is just yet another ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 00:33:45
I mean, if they lost - they're dead. If they're dead - they can't pick up shit. And if they weren't in the caravan pvp zone - they weren't defending. These are somewhat mutually exclusive.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 02:49:29
Guess I'll just have to see what kind of top end content Intrepid envisions before making my decision to either agree or disagree with this statement. Yes, they want to have content that's only clearable by <10%, but I don't think they've explained how exactly they wanna achieve that kind of difficulty. And my limited experience with top end pve just can't allow me to imagine an open world encounter that's so truly complex that you need a tracker to defeat it. Dearly hope we see such a boss in the earlier stages of alpha2 rather than later ones. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 03:10:34
FF14 is a difficult thing to compare to other things, because it's so story-driven that majority of people couldn't care less about how to beat the top-end content. And as have been said before here, ff14 has guilds that use trackers, so it's not like there's none there either. Btw, on the topic of ff14, I forgot to ask @Aerlana . Have you played ff14 from the early expansions or just the recent ones? I was interested in the information about whether ultimates became more complex/harder throughout the expansions. I'd imagine they did, but by how much (at least ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 03:18:58
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Looting#Loot_tagging https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Gear https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas#Arena_ladder
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 04:07:49
Which is exactly my point. If they go down the path of "peak pve is open world" then, just as you implied, I can't see how they'll make it super complex w/o making it pretty much impossible. And if they go down the path of semi or full instance - then it kinda goes against the "open world" promise and would not even be repeatable if they go with full instance. And if they go with a less complex open world boss - any real pvers like you would say it's boring as fuck (I'd assume) and there wouldn't ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 04:25:25
But it is exactly because of Ashes being a themebox and not a themepark that there's a higher chance of more people being influenced by top end players. All of ff14 is cooperative, so the overall attitude towards content and players is positive and kind (with the sprout icon being the greatest example). But quite a huge chunk of Ashes will be competitive. Especially when it comes to bosses and their loot, because they'll be open world. I know that you don't care about the loot part of the encounter, but a ton of people will be fighting over ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 15:27:42
The only way I see them succeed at this is to give every class several unique cross-class synergistic abilities and make the class change requirements so damn expensive and difficult that people have to find new members instead of just changing the class of their current stack. The meta will be the "1 of each archetype" setup, as you yourself like to say. So they'll need to vary it up with gear and augments. There's a chance they could go veeeeery deep into social org augment requirements on bosses (which imo would be quite interesting), but outside of that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 16:44:18
I've suggested a system similar to this a few months back. Make the BH system more appealing to take up and make PK victims feel better about the situation by returning them their items. Not sure if I'd reward non-BH players for returning those items, but would definitely like to see smth like this added to the BH system.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 16:46:07
What exactly is the source of confusion there? Cause "what?" doesn't really tell me anything about the reason behind your post.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 17:23:37
You said there'll be no meta, but the design goal of "1 of each archetype" immediately implies a default preference and a potential benefit to having 1 of each archetype in your party. That's the basis of a meta. In order to vary it up to a point that it's not just "you have 8 archetypes - you have best dps output for your party" you need to design each class' augments in a way that they feel different enough and have different lvls of synergy and dps outputs. And in order to avoid an objective "meta", you'll need ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 17:26:51
Hell yeah! Let's have the battle of the wallets! Who's willing to pay more, people who wanna show off their wallets or people who don't want none of that shit?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 17:36:55
I keep forgetting that it's certificates for goods rather than just goods in the caravan. So I guess any one person could in fact just yoink it all up and easily cash it in the point of origin. So my point about "attackers/defenders can't take all the loot" was moot.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 19:04:44
Yes, those are all the currently planned designs and I hope they work out exactly how they're currently planned. And if the do, there's a good chance that even the tracker/meter people won't care about those tools as much as they would've in other games, purely due to the volatility of content and variability of group setups. But I'm assuming we're at least 2 years away from knowing if that'll be the case.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 19:19:48
Yeah, they'll obviously use them to figure out their own best rotations and stuff, but that's why I said "not as much as in other games". A completely scripted game can be "solved" through proper tracker use. A completely random game would require you to know what to do in each possible combination of mob abilities, as Noaani said. So, in theory, a game that's in the middle and that is balanced as well as Dygz sees it to be - the tracker use would probably be fairly limited (on top of Intrepid's "no addons" rule).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-08-14 19:47:30
Btw, have there been mmos with 0 combat info? Did they have complex pve and did it require or at least result in tracker use? I'm not sure if I've ever heard about or seen such an mmo, so I wouldn't even know how people would react if Intrepid went so hard on their anti-addon spiel that they removed any hp/dmg indicators. Like, to a point where you don't even know your own HP values, so that you couldn't just extrapolate damages from pvp fights. I'd assume quite a lot of people would dislike that huge of an info ...