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Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 05:37:13
Dygz, it can't be a pvx game w/o requiring both sides of the spectrum. I know that pvers hate pvp, which is why they shouldn't play games that make them do pvp. But if those pvers want to play the game either way - they'll have to put up with pvp in just the same way as pvpers put up with pve. The same goes for pvpers. If you want to only pvp - the game's not for you.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 05:50:32
I'm, like, 80% sure people would fucking love that. No complaining about "this guy plays 20h a day while I can only play 30 minutes", no complaining about "they play during the off hours so they're constantly ahead of us and we'll never catch up", and the overall love for the session-based games of the current generation would probably boost the first mmo to do session-based gameplay quite high. By having a low droprate (lower than whatever Intrepid wanted to go with) you're yet again dooming any guild/party that's unable to farm all 4 respawns of the boss, while ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 05:51:34
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling XP will be awarded for participating in objective-based PvP on a diminishing returns basis.[6] In other words, not really.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 06:06:20
Those small guilds would be able to work together to stand up against bigger guilds or stronger parties. And there'd be more smaller guilds during primetime than during the day (purely because normal people got jobs and shit). And as you said yourself, there's already a ton of primetime stuff in the game, so some of the stronger guilds might have a bigger event going on, so those smaller ones would be able to snag a boss in the meantime. And all the people that play during the day would have more ways to make money that would then ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 06:19:23
You'd need to level up first and that's mainly through pve. You then need gear to survive that pvp. Theoretically your friends could give it to you, but those would have to be some very loyal friends that give their hard-earned gear TO YOU, while you sit on your ass and do nothing. But even then, in the bigger picture of gear acquisition, the only way to get said gear is to PvE.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 06:30:23
And the majority of people don't have more than 5h a day to play. And iirc, most people play 1-2h a day. So while a few nerds won't be able to play the game for days on end, they also can use that time to play any other game, while the people with limited time can play an mmo with balanced pvp for a change (outside of GW2 arena of course).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 06:31:31
Which is exactly why the game is called pvx. You have both pve and pvp at the same time. And in most cases you need both to progress.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 06:54:00
As I literally said, majority would probably have ~5h to play (unless they're unsocial nerds like I am) and most people will have <3h. And like I said even before that, no one will ever make an mmo like this, but what we do see is this classic line Peak at evening, low at other times. And it would most likely be lower were it not counting everyone outside of one country, but afaik steam doesn't provide server-based numbers and I dunno if there's another site that would give reliable stats on this topic.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 06:56:53
This is the closest info we have afaik https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mentor_program But yes, I'd love for there to be several system-based rewards for helping people out. The bounty hunter system is one such mechanic, but we don't have enough info on how exactly it'll work, and from what I've understood it seems to mainly rely on the fact that any PKer will have a shitton of corruption and would take very long to grind it off by XPing. And I personally have several issues with that kind of design, but I wanna hear more details before giving even more feedback than ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 08:10:35
Any death. And you'll still lose items on death (potentially gear too), so you'd have to run to your death location before anyone else gets there to pick them back up. And death penalties will be big enough to deter people from just dying on the spot (well, at least supposedly). Though Steven said that removing corruption by gaining XP will be super slow, so unless they rebalance it PKers will indeed probably just die to their friends or to a random mob deep in a forest far from other people. CCs don't work against green players and I ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 10:52:10
These kinds of players would quite in the first few days of the game most likely. We just gotta have 200-300k players left in the game that wouldn't get discouraged by a single loss.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-25 12:29:07
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Utility_skills
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 00:03:12
Open world dungeons are not meant to be "run" again and again. At least they didn't work like that in L2 and Steven loved them that way. You just found a room that you could farm on repeat and which had your preferred loot and you'd farm it. And while farming you might've ran to boss rooms to check if they've respawned and would try to farm them if they did.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 00:16:25
Definitely don't want account-wide guild membership. No spying capabilities that way. As for the OP, yes, there'll most likely be alt guilds, but I highly doubt they'll be in an alliance with their main. What will most likely happen is that big guilds will have an alliance of 40-man parts of their guild, so that they get all the benefits of being in a small guild on all of their main members. Alts don't really need all those benefits so there's no real reason to keep them in the alliance. Also, having your alts in an alliance with the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 00:24:26
I was giving a hypothetical example of another mmo that, I think, a lot of people would like. And the answer to the question would be "tough luck, don't play the game or play on a server that fits your time". And yeah, you could have different servers in one region have staggered primetimes, so it wouldn't be that big of a problem, especially considering that you'd probably only need a few of those due to how few people play in those times. I do not want this kind of mechanic for Ashes because I'm gonna live in Ashes. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 01:06:17
I don't really know how the hierarchy in a dev studio works, but couldn't AI/mob devs just make good stuff and then present it to Steven? And even if you yourself dislike the concept of L2's "world instances", I do think that Steven could allow that mechanic as a way to develop super hardcore pve that still has pvp in its farm process.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 01:20:12
In other words, the system would've worked? Awesome! Also, I feel like you (and quite a lot of other people in other threads) are forgetting that PKing =/= open world pvp. PK means killing someone who never wanted to fight back in the first place. If you're a pvper who allegedly has enough skill to challenge others to pvp - you should be able to remove someone from a location w/o immediately PKing them. PKing should be your last resort suffocation, no breathing . And people in high lvl locations and especially in deep dungeons would most likely just ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 01:23:44
Session-based games are the most popular ones in the world. Most people only have a few hours a day to play the game and those hours usually fall into the same part of the day (because jobs and social life). This kind of game would, in theory, appeal to exactly that majority. Especially if designed correctly.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 02:22:19
Yeah, as we've discussed before, I agree that open seas change was definitely a push towards the pvp side of the spectrum. But until they tell us what's in those seas, outside of the "ohhh, there's, like, so much cool stuff there and it's, like, so valuable that you just HAVE to pvp for it", I can't say if I fully agree with your dislike for it. I understand why you dislike it, but if all the explorable content is locked behind hardcore pve (that's supposedly the stuff that you gotta pvp for) - I'd assume you wouldn't be ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 03:42:38
While your assumption is a logical one, considering AA being one of the inspirations, Dygz is still a mostly explorative pve player. And he said in the past that hardcore content is not really his forte. So if exploration (outside of literally empty open waters) is blocked by huge bosses or super strong mobs that can hunt you throughout the open seas (I'd personally love those) - I'd assume Dygz wouldn't be able to explore the stuff that's locked behind those mobs/bosses. But right now we got no details about any of that. Which is why I'm gonna wait ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 04:31:20
BiS mats and drops themselves will only come from open world bosses, so, yes, you'll have to pvp for them against anyone else trying to get them.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 04:42:51
The chances are, you'll need a strong guild to even have a chance at the boss itself. And with a strong guild come strong war enemies. At which point you'll have ffa pvp even outside of the open seas.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 05:02:44
Which is exactly why some of us have been asking for more PvE talk. There are ways of having "instanced" bosses that still have pvp linked to their farm. But having pvp linked to the boss farm is an integral part of the PvX equation of Ashes. So if you dislike having pvp around your pve, the game might not be a good fit for you.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 05:27:14
But that's the only type of content where you can push your players to their gameplay limits. Doing some cute quest by running around and maaaybe solving puzzle is not really pushing anyone who has above room temp IQ (Fahrenheit-wise). But having a boss that has several different mechanics all stacked up onto each other, and all those mechanics require players to do different actions in synergy and at correct timings - all of that pushes people to do their best. And when you add the factor of "if you want to farm the boss - you gotta go ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 05:32:29
It was also made on UE3 and was barely even optimized to run those kinds of fights. Yes, there was definitely lag, but considering smth like WoW that allegedly broke servers when too many people were in one place ("too many" meaning a few hundred afaik) - L2 was a god damn miracle of dev engineering back then. And iirc Steven (or someone else) said that UE5 is much better for mmo-sized fights than the previous versions. And I think I heard smth about them make good progress on their netcode too? Not sure about that one though. Oh, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 06:28:34
This vid has been posted in some other thread too, but still. This is probably 2-3 hundred people (maybe a bit more). All in one location (pretty much instanced) in a game from 2003. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgBQ1Vvx5HI Here's another 300+ (144 on just one side) people now in not an instanced location https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLrccSBRG_w Netcode, optimization, player hardware - all have become much better since those days. And Intrepid are pushing them even further (allegedly). You need shards on poorly optimized games that weren't built for this shit. BDO should've been a great representation of that, but their engine is a bit ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 06:32:53
And if those assumption will prove to be real, then I'll completely understand why Dygz wouldn't want to play the game.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 06:41:03
I'd prefer a ton of rooms for an 8-member group, with boss rooms of different sizes (8/16/24) and the final boss at the end of the dungeon for the 40-man raid. Guilds would have to fight for those rooms, while having an opportunity to have a temporary truce or an alliance. Several groups will have to pull into the same room to fight a boss that just spawned and if they were too far from that room, other people in room between the boss and that group will see a lot of movement and might assume that there's a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 06:45:17
I ain't got a clue I was just trying to imagine how exactly would a mob-developing process go down. Is it purely and exactly what Steven says to do or do the devs just get a request along the lines of "I want this type of mob that can do this type of thing" and then have to make that to the best of their abilities. And I feel like if its the latter, the devs could make a proper hardcore mob and then present it to Steven saying "this is an example of what we can do at ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-10-26 06:54:24
I was giving an example of what was possible to have in one location nearly 20 years ago and said that tech has gone a long way since then. Here's 1300 bodies animating a fight in one place (1:08:00) https://youtu.be/HB7gWTpeB08?t=4083 And Intrepid is still working on bettering this. Again, tech has come a long way and good devs can push it even further. And afaik there's some potential server (netcode?) trickery that lets Intrepid to have seamless splits of a location onto several processing servers, so that the overall load is shared across them. But I'm not well-versed in ...