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Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 06:25:43
Yep, quite a lot of "tab games" were just hybrids or became hybrids with updates (L2 was this way). And this is mainly why I say that tab games can do most, if not all, things action games can and more, cause they kinda never were "just tab".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 06:50:06
In L2 it was ability-dependent. Some had melee range, some had mid range, some had long range. If you were outside of the range and clicked it, your character would automatically turn and run towards your target until it got into range and used the skill. Iirc, you could break a cast by going behind an obstacle or by going out of range. Though I'm not completely sure about those cause it's been quite a while since I've played and a ton of different servers/game versions had different settings so it's kinda jumbled in my mind. Yeah, that definitely ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 07:10:01
You'd need to break it as they were casting it. I thiiiiink that worked, but really don't take my word for it cause this is the one I'm the least sure about. The wall move definitely prevented the hit from finishing, though again, you'd have to move into cover during the cast. But if you were already out of range, the attacker would in fact just run after you until they were in range, which, when I think about it, makes me think that running out of range might've not been a thing I think this mechanic was mainly ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 07:32:01
It wasn't even about the projectiles. I'd really have to doublecheck it, but I feel like at least on some version of the game you had a cast snap distance, where if you went over that distance the cast of your attacker would cancel. Now this won't leave my head, cause I can't remember it for sure
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 08:43:16
If it was out of your control, why care for it? And in the future, if you don't have the money for more cosmetics - why care that you'll miss them?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 17:00:31
I'm not crazy after all
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 17:36:07
And here I thought NWO was purely action, yet this is also just hybrid. Or are you talking about non-online Neverwinter?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 17:43:40
I just call that shit hybrid, just like Dygz likes to call BDO hack&slash To me the only true pure action game is one where there's no targeting at all. Anything else is a hybrid, same as most tab games are hybrids too because they have action skills. New World is omega hybrid too, with its shitty healing.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 17:57:55
Eh, to me, as long as you have any aim assist in an "action mmo" - it's hybrid. I'm just an extremist like that Same on the other side of the scale. If a "tab mmo" has action skills - it's a hybrid (imo). And the more cases of either of those things are - the more hybrid the games will be to me.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 18:23:04
That looks like an action camera that gives you a short target lock window to account for ping or whatever. To me that's more tab than me hitting an L2 dagger class that has passive detargeting skills on him which removes my target every other hit, so I have to retarget him constantly and that motherfucker is running real fast all over the place, while the dudes in that NWO video have over-a-second-long cast/atk animations. Here's a "dance around a pillar" fight from L2's arena (watch at half speed for real in-game speed, cause the uploader sped it up). ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 18:33:24
Like I said, I'm extremist when it comes to this issue. To me even that CoD aim assist brings it way closer to "hybrid" combat exactly because of that assist. Which just goes to show that hybrid combat is the future of all games' combat, so we should be very happy with AoC's direction
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 18:44:07
Yeah, and in action combat games "dodging" is also just pressing a button, based on your prediction of your enemy's movement. So I see no difference between L2's environment and "use of dodge skills" gameplay and action mmo's "press A two times to dodge to the left" gameplay. Does it happen more often in action games? Yes. Is the pure skill requirement way higher in action games? I wouldn't really say so, because most abilities in action games are aoes, so it's not like you're purely aiming very precise hit scans. I'd say smth like Halo Infinite (and probably ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 18:50:32
I forgot to mention this yesterday but this is probably the biggest example of what Dygz keeps saying. Mmorpgs have you play a character in the game, with that character having some of its own agency. You're just the semi-omniscient being within that character's "head" who can control its actions while also providing more info to the character than it should have (i.e. being able to see behind the character w/o it turning). While action combat mmos bring you way closer to the character and limiting the character's agency. Character's stats don't matter as much because your own physical ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 18:51:09
If Minecraft was way faster I'd definitely consider it one of the harder (if not hardest) pvp games out there
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 19:10:13
I'd probably prefer a downscale up the levels. Go from A at lower lvls to D at top lvls. Hook in new players and casuals with fun "I'm a fucking superhero" combat and then bring in harder and more complex mobs, while decreasing their numbers. A sprinkling of reverse population would be nice too. So that there's a few locations with hard singular mobs at low levels and then a few locations with easy group mobs at top lvls. With mid lvls having the most of both sides, which might limit the "mid lvl burnout" feeling and have a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 19:16:45
I'm not an action mmo main player so I wouldn't know, but I feel like that's a bad way of approaching balancing in an action mmo. From what I've heard people hate the fact that OE gear in BDO can just make you invincible against people, even though the game requires a ton of physical skill from the player. To me, that kinda goes against the whole premise of "action mmos give you more space to show and prove your physical skill, while tab games give you more space to make builds and come up with proper rotations for ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 19:52:07
But that's why I said that you should still have a taste of the other side at all times. The Yin and Yang approach. And this is just in the context of solo pve. The game will be mainly designed for party play, so it's not like solos are even the target audience. I just suggested a way to hook them into the game more, because they'd still be able to farm easy group mobs at top lvls, but would still have to group up for more difficult content, same as they probably would have to do to kill ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 22:06:32
Most definitely hope there is one.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-03 23:58:49
Angle-based vertical combat system. All abilities have 3 forms "low, mid, high" and your camera angle determines which form of the ability will be used when you press the button. Mobs/bosses can be designed with this in mind, being weak to whichever forms and your positioning relative to said mob/boss will be very important. And your camera control skills, while doing dodges and being aware of shit, would be paramount. If you try having this kind of mechanic in a tab system, you're either sacrificing your ability pool by 2/3 or you bloat it to 3 times its size ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 00:43:28
Yeah, I probably missed an inside quote from somewhere, or it might've been an undeleted draft from before. Sometime this forum's quoting system frustrates me. Or maybe I just dunno how to properly use it.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 01:59:09
Yeah, those would be the variables on skills with some basic function. And the form of the skill would be based on your crosshair's position in relation to your character's head, which is why I said that it'd be somewhere around the 2nd person camera position. If you're looking down, the abilities would be red colored (for example), if you're in the mid range of the camera - yellow, aiming up top would be green. This would allow you to just perceive your attack form with peripheral vision instead of glancing at the bar. Obviously with time and practice ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 06:09:11
I was thinking about having abilities that you can use while jumping and/or synergistic abilities where you might be able to get onto a tank holding his shield and you'd have a higher vantage point. Say, tank could do a low shield defensive skill and you'd do a jump/dash towards that tank and the game would recognize that as a synergistic ability which would trigger an animation of the tank lifting the shield with you on it and holding it for 2-3 secs, where you can use any skill in any form. Of course I dunno whether this kinds ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 18:26:56
What I want will already be in the game. Open world PvX bosses. Which form they take I don't really care for, as long as there's pvp for them.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 18:41:17
Did you get that guild together before the release or after? Was it comprised purely of random people that you invited in-game or was some part of the guild your previous acquaintances?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 18:52:20
Ah, then I want some super difficult bosses with intricate mechanics that can only be dealt with through utility abilities of different classes and synergize abilities of all 8 archetypes in one party (so that people have to have one of each in the setup). Well, again though - that's literally what it's gonna be that's what I mean by owPvX bosses. That's how it was in L2. Here's a farm of one of the dragons with more pvp than farming. There's way less people than usually, but that's cause this was on a private server with big OE ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 18:57:24
Combat movement is one of the most important parts of the combat for a lot of people. The whole argument about rooted motion or split body was the main reason why we waited for this combat update. Apparently a lot of people hate rooted combat, so Intrepid had to properly animate and design movement so that it seems better for those people.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 20:48:01
There's 3 states a character can be in. Non-combatant (green), combatant (purple) and corrupted (red). This is how you move across those states You don't toggle anything. If you are green and you hit another green or purple - you become purple. If that green doesn't fight back and you hit him until he dies - you're red. A purple person is not a PKer. Only a red person is a PKer. Being corrupted is a binary thing. You either are or you are not. The penalty multiplier starts as soon as you receive your first bit of corruption, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-04 21:09:57
We have 0 idea about what exactly those quests entail and "permaflagged" locations are just pvp spots, not PK spots. So still, being corrupted is not a playstyle.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-05 14:22:20
I was talking about this suggestion in the context of the OP and the corruption talk. If you get auto-flagged - you're not corrupted. All pvp event locations will "auto-flag" you, as long as you agree to participate in the event. And depending on the server situation, there'll probably be way more than 10% of the server who's pvping. Especially at primetime on that server.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-05 14:51:25
I dunno how it worked in AA, but in L2 I had to click on people instead of just hitting tab, because L2's tab had a limited range and, due to the speed of combat, tabbing through random close people was a waste of time when you could just click on a person directly. L2 had detargeting abilities so you did in fact have to track your targets. And if you had those detargeting skills yourself, you'd try and use them to prevent enemy casts, so you would not only track movement, but ability usage too. And with some ...