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Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 02:39:33
This whole discussion can be nipped in the bud by a single mechanic - detargeting. Give several classes different ways to detarget their enemy and you'll have yourself a pvp mechanic that requires tab players to be always looking at their enemy, otherwise they won't be able to hit them.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 03:01:10
I don't think banning people for playing the game in the way the game allows them to is the right choice. Having a friend BH kill you (friend would have to be non-guild/ally/party/family) is not really that big of an abuse, because the death itself is the biggest penalty, rather than a death to a particular type of player. And I agree with others who suggested having limited rewards for BHing. I'm gonna be a BH and I'd be completely fine if all I got as a reward was just a title or some cosmetic (on top of obvious ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 05:13:12
I meant this current branch of the discussion that mainly stems from Mag saying that "you can just run forward and attack dudes w/o looking at them with your camera" (even though your character will still have to look at them). Yes, you'd still be able to do that if you wanted, but if several/most/all classes have some form of detargeting in the skillset, then it'd be much harder for you to not look at your opponent and win in a fight. And judging by Mag's like, I'd assume he'd support that kind of mechanic. Obviously it'll have to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 05:22:45
A much better strat would be to go through all 8 people PKing rather than raking up the PK count of a single player. But yes, that would work if all those people are not in a party/raid/guild/ally, cause if they are - they can't attack each other Or at least that is my current assumption considering flagging rules. There's a chance that getting corruption might immediately throw you out of your party or disregard your guild affiliations, but I'd hope it doesn't cause that would open up the exact abuse that you mentioned. But even outside of that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 05:43:45
I really hope they show off some tab combat in this month's stream. Cause I wanna see if tab abilities influence your character's position in any way, or if they just tell you "turn/run towards your target in order to use this ability". If tab stuff even just turns your character to aim at the target, I can already see how you might be able to combine action skills with tab targeting, while running away from your enemy.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 08:06:53
As the local hardcore tab pvper, I can say that tab works just fine in pvp It's all about the design, so we'll just have to see what Steven/Intrepid prefers for pvp, if there is even a preference.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 10:39:23
You know what would actually help? Having 8 archetypes to test out party balancing, because that is exactly what they want at the end. Outside of what Noaani said, I really don't see how arenas would help in any way that is different from just people testing out the game in whatever way they want. You know what would happen though? People would just play around in the arena, not really testing anything but just pvping. I've seen this happen in countless private L2 servers that let people test out the server's features and gave them way more tools ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-19 15:02:23
I think PKing equally-lvled people should be somewhat fine for the first ~5-7 kills. It should be grindoffable within 10-15 mins, which would give a narrow window for BHs. Higher PK count would add several minutes for each kill, while PK count decreasing should be a real expensive/long/hard activity so that people have to either go out of their way to keep PKing if they really want to. And if they don't do the quest and still keep PKing, then BHs will definitely get on their ass. And I feel like Steven somewhat agrees with that kind of balancing ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 02:54:26
That's why I mentioned proper play with giving your attacker corruption. If you can respawn and come back to the place where you were killed within the minimum time required for the PKer to grind off his corruption - you might want to give him that corruption and remove him from that place for a while, because he'll have to deal with XP debt or high gear decay. Obviously there's way more variables in play, but I'd definitely keep "respawn-return" timers in my head whenever I'm farming smth. That's where you just socialize and get friends/guildmates/nodemates with higher adventure ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 04:10:43
I'm too much of an L2 simp to want healers/supports doing any kind of dps. You balance the game around party play? Well then make it so that dps can't survive w/o supports and supports can't do shit w/o dps. Though obviously that kind of design would probably not fly in this day and age.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 04:41:35
Keep in mind, they are only talking about flagging rules so far. I'll probably ask a question about this for this upcoming stream to learn more. I just supposed that it would be logical to apply those flagging rules to PKers too, but that is not a sure thing right now.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 05:09:07
This is where my L2 bias shines the brightest. To me it's just too alien to even think about groups of randoms trying to find other people or whatever. I'm so used to "I have a group of people that I play with every day and our stack is set up in the way we want (with dps and supports requiring each other)". If you don't have such a group at the start of the game - you look for a guild to then find them there, or you find other people looking for your class and then you ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 05:30:18
In my experience the "hanging out" part came along after finding the group/guild. You had to make an effort (same as other people) to jell well with others. Yes, sometimes this would not work out, but once it does - the relationships are that much stronger. The common interest was not even leveling up. It was "to win". And you had to do whatever it took to do so. I personally liked that, because as an introvert it pushed me to learn how to converse with people and build relationships quickly. And L2's requirement to have a full group ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 13:36:46
If anything, sometimes it's easier to hit someone in action combat than in tab, cause evasive builds can get quite absurd.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 14:15:05
I don't remember if I've stated this outright before, but, on the off chance I haven't, here it is: I find it unbelievably dumb to have evasion in an action combat game. Why da hell do you build your game around physical player skill and then literally fuck it all up by introducing system-based evasion to it. So to me, the fact that BDO also has evasion sounds just like a huge negative rather than smth to praise. And when it comes to hybrid, I personally would be completely fine if my tab attacks had a chance to miss, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 16:53:01
Guess I'm just not like other girls players
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 16:58:02
I, as a non-fighting game player, would agree with this cause I see fighting games as more of "know your opponent and try to predict his next moves" thing rather than "mash and pray" one.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:00:21
Corruption is not an intended playstyle in Ashes though. It's just a way to kill someone when you think you need to. But such actions will be punished, so it's not really a "pvp type".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:02:29
A quick google didn't give me any info on this. Could you give a quick explanation of what it is? Or maybe give a link to somewhere that explains it?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:03:08
So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:20:54
Just to give you a bit more data. Back when I was playing a lot of Tekken 3 with friends I played Bryan Fury. Dunno if that fits Leap Siegrfried though
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:24:31
Very much so
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:42:54
In case you missed my previous post, did you play/know Tekken characters and does playing Bryan Fury fit the Leap Siegfried playstyle?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 17:54:29
There's also a chance that my attitude has changed since those days (it's been ~15 years since I've last played a fighting game and the only one I played was Tekken 3). But I also definitely didn't play it in any "pro" way back then so yeah, I doubt my preferred character back then could say much about me as a person. The only character I remember liking in SC (don't even remember which one) was the double tri-sword dude. Though I played that SC waaaay less than Tekken so there's that too
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 18:26:46
As another piece of data, my reasoning behind choosing Bryan as my main back then was mainly about countering what my friends played. One played super cheese Jin (his electro punch and just basic annoying sweeping kick), another friend played Paul and the third played Hwoarang (the best player among us). From all the character in Tekken 3 Bryan had the biggest punches (or at least it seemed that way to me at the time) and he had good range on his attacks (mainly kicks). So I chose him, learned several of his moves (we mainly just button mashed ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 18:37:06
Playing Tank fits my plans for the RP part of my gameplay so at least right now I wanna concentrate on that, but yeah, I'd be fine going with smth else if that fits my preferences better but I'll only know that once we have all the classes in testing. Back in L2 I played all classes quite extensively, but still had a "main" if I had freedom of choice when starting out on a new server. I'm very excited to play every class in the game and see what feels best to me. Can't wait for Alpha2
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 18:55:58
The quote from Steven here leads me to believe that Fighter's augments might give some sort of mobility and big phys dmg to your abilities. In my head, high mobility means either initiation (and quote seems to talk about this application exactly) or timely retreat. Initiating a fight usually means that you gonna get some hits on you so you wanna be a bit on the chunkier side, so to me it seems logical to have those augments on an archetype that can take some beating (which logically should be the tank). And the phys dmg part would help ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 20:20:26
Your stats will start going down if you PK too much and if you die while being Red you'll get x4 multiplier on death penalties. And if you have enough corruption, bounty hunters will see you on the map and start hunting you. And literally any player around you can attack you w/o any penalties to them, and will probably want to attack you because to them you're a loot piñata. All of those seem like way more of a punishment to me than a "playstyle". No one's trying to stop you from trying playing as a Red, but ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 21:04:48
Btw, @Noaani @Azherae did EQ2/FF11 have character attacks/abilities that couldn't hit in close range but did hit in long range? Don't think L2 had those kinds of attacks. It was mainly "if you're in range to hit smth, you can hit it no matter how close your target is to you".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-20 21:26:39
I see. Hope Ashes has some too, cause I feel like that could be a good skill-testing mechanic and make positioning gameplay even deeper.